Gnuman Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 All it means is that yout throttle position sensor is now attached to the gas pedal instead of a cable and a spring to a tps and a butterfly valve. i mean you can sit here and debate and say youll never buy it etc etc etc,,,, but then that means in about ten years you will be walking everywhere. nipper It means more than that (I'm with blitz on this),but I'd bet that my 92 Legacy will be around for a bit more than 10 years more. And I can "upgrade" to a newer model, just stopping before the "fly by wire" years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Fly-by-wire throttle in Subarus simply suck. They are just plain sloppy. I"m not certain about other car makers, but Subaru sucks in this regard. Juan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 hehe i never defneded them, just made statements about the future, They will get better in the next few years. What im not a big fan of is electrically assisted power steering, as oposed to an eletric motor driving a power steering pump. The one that is going to make me nervous is break by wire, but that would require some changes of federal policy to let that happen, and i hope it doesnt. SHifting is already getting away from the mechanical connection to the tranny, with the paddles on the steering wheel, and electrically operated clutches. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n16ht5 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 turn down the music and listen to your engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 It means more than that (I'm with blitz on this),but I'd bet that my 92 Legacy will be around for a bit more than 10 years more. And I can "upgrade" to a newer model, just stopping before the "fly by wire" years.I guess a person either sees it or they don't. I'd bet a dime to a donut that some company already has a patent on a parking meter system that uses RFID technology. Your car a ain't movin' until you swipe your Socialist Homeland Security Card (or Smart-Dust implant). Being "pulled-over" by the cops (or robbers) is gonna take on a whole new meaning shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 hehe i never defneded them, just made statements about the future, They will get better in the next few years. What im not a big fan of is electrically assisted power steering, as oposed to an eletric motor driving a power steering pump. The one that is going to make me nervous is break by wire, but that would require some changes of federal policy to let that happen, and i hope it doesnt.SHifting is already getting away from the mechanical connection to the tranny, with the paddles on the steering wheel, and electrically operated clutches. nipper hah - I once saw a car (sorry - can't recall the model) in an auto museum that had electromagnetic shift. Push in the clucth, push a button for 1-2-3 gear. i think it was late 20s early 30s model! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 hah - I once saw a car (sorry - can't recall the model) in an auto museum that had electromagnetic shift. Push in the clucth, push a button for 1-2-3 gear. i think it was late 20s early 30s model! no new ideas. You dont have to go back that far. VW autostick in the 70's had a torque converter and a vacum operated clutch. Sweet system, except you took a car with a 0-60 time you measured with a sundial and now can use a calander. Now they have multiple clutches and computer shifting. In thero with the computer controled clutches they should last the life of the car, but we all know how that works out. nipper nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Now they have multiple clutches and computer shifting. In thero with the computer controled clutches they should last the life of the car, but we all know how that works out. nipper Yeah, "the life of the car" is set by the computer, and you have to get a new computer (or a new car) when the computer says time is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Yeah, "the life of the car" is set by the computer, and you have to get a new computer (or a new car) when the computer says time is up. sigh, whatever. Seems like your a bit paranoid. Sometimes there is no reasoning with people nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 hehe i never defneded them, just made statements about the future, They will get better in the next few years. What im not a big fan of is electrically assisted power steering, as oposed to an eletric motor driving a power steering pump. The one that is going to make me nervous is break by wire, but that would require some changes of federal policy to let that happen, and i hope it doesnt.SHifting is already getting away from the mechanical connection to the tranny, with the paddles on the steering wheel, and electrically operated clutches. nipper You mean brake by wire? Or maybe you did mean break by wire.... What if a rat gets in a chew the wire??? Or the software crashes. I have to admit my '61 landrover, which has no power steering or power brakes (and if you have to, you can crank start it, and run it without a battery), is pretty darn nice.... Doesn't have any of the those stinkin sychronized transmission gears either. I remember my dad saying how bad power steering, electronic ignition, fuel injection were going to be. All sort of other things that work better in theory, but just make it more complicated and you can't fix on the side of the road as easy. We got used to all of them eventually too.... Edit: oh, I forgot that right now the landrover has no brakes at all, because one of the lines rusted off. So much for it being better than break by wire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 You mean brake by wire? Or maybe you did mean break by wire.... What if a rat gets in a chew the wire??? Or the software crashes. I have to admit my '61 landrover, which has no power steering or power brakes (and if you have to, you can crank start it, and run it without a battery), is pretty darn nice.... Doesn't have any of the those stinkin sychronized transmission gears either. I remember my dad saying how bad power steering, electronic ignition, fuel injection were going to be. All sort of other things that work better in theory, but just make it more complicated and you can't fix on the side of the road as easy. We got used to all of them eventually too.... Edit: oh, I forgot that right now the landrover has no brakes at all, because one of the lines rusted off. So much for it being better than break by wire... I swear on most cars even today, I can detect throttle lag versus all those carburetted cars I've owned. And it seems like cars are now 'binary' everything is fine and then - nothing. The older cars would be OK, then sorta be sluggish to start or miss a little, then gradually performance would decline - until you decided it needed a 'tune up'. At least we can get a code now to help troubleshoot. But the 80s were the worst! Not really enough sensors and computing power to help, but too 'different' from the old days to be familiar! I sometimes long for a vehicle with only 1 vacuum line (going to the distributer!) and enough room to get IN the engine compartment while working on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 You mean brake by wire? Or maybe you did mean break by wire.... What if a rat gets in a chew the wire??? Or the software crashes. QUOTE] brake by wire, trust me i dont like the idea of it either. The first think you wil see is the rear brakes go this way, i sont know about the fronts. technically no reason they cant do it, but i wouldnt want it until it had 300 billion test miles on it. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic/se Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 A lot of people do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I swear on most cars even today, I can detect throttle lag versus all those carburetted cars I've owned.I too noticed an airy-er tip-in feel to the fuel-injected cars initially, although I don't notice it anymore. I think I've just gotten used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Well some good news, in my latest issue of Automotive Engineering International (trade mag for SAE Members) full drive by wire is put off till 2015. Brake by wire has too many iissues, but you will see it in hybirds on the rear brakes. Shift by wire is being delayed. Parking brakes are going to be operated by wire. 42volt electrical systems which are required for the other two by wire systems has been delayed too due to extensive costs. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Well some good news, in my latest issue of Automotive Engineering International (trade mag for SAE Members) full drive by wire is put off till 2015. Brake by wire has too many iissues, but you will see it in hybirds on the rear brakes. Shift by wire is being delayed. Parking brakes are going to be operated by wire. 42volt electrical systems which are required for the other two by wire systems has been delayed too due to extensive costs. nipper so far, I have no issues with my '06's throttle-by-wire but I DO wonder what kinda safeguards are in place. Aren't commercial aircraft nowadays pretty much EVERYTHING by wire? I guess if it meets or exceeds the reliabilty of mechanical/hydraulic systems I have no problem with it - except it's harder to work on in my garage! It's not like throttle cables can't break or get stuck or brake lines/master cylinders etc. can't go bad. We don't have perfection now - so its unreasonable to compare 'wire' systems to perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 It is not that the equipment is inferior that gets me worried (that is a matter of fine tuning the software to perform better), but that this opens up a hole where you car can be hacked into, and control of the vehicle is taken away from you. Converting the major systems to "by wire" type mecanisms is the first step in having the computer control everything (and I mean everything) on the car. The electronic power assisted steering can lock the steering so that you cannot drive the car away, the brake by wire would lock up the brakes, the throttle by wire would simply no longer accept input from your foot, the engine would not go above idle, and the security system would lock the doors, and not allow them to be unlocked. . . There you are. Captured. This is done with a push of a button. I'm not talking about tomorrow, or even next week. But that is the place where this could be headed if certain powers remain in power. Am I paranoid? God, I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 It is not that the equipment is inferior that gets me worried (that is a matter of fine tuning the software to perform better), but that this opens up a hole where you car can be hacked into, and control of the vehicle is taken away from you. Converting the major systems to "by wire" type mecanisms is the first step in having the computer control everything (and I mean everything) on the car. The electronic power assisted steering can lock the steering so that you cannot drive the car away, the brake by wire would lock up the brakes, the throttle by wire would simply no longer accept input from your foot, the engine would not go above idle, and the security system would lock the doors, and not allow them to be unlocked. . . There you are. Captured. This is done with a push of a button. I'm not talking about tomorrow, or even next week. But that is the place where this could be headed if certain powers remain in power. Am I paranoid? God, I hope so. point taken. Though the 'tree huggers' are just as likely as the 'nazis' to decide I shouldn't drive my car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 I'm not talking about tomorrow, or even next week. But that is the place where this could be headed if certain powers remain in power. Am I paranoid? God, I hope so. And well you should be, Gnu. Here is how it will happen (set your own time-frame from this.) Government decides folks can't be trusted to use hands-free cell phones while driving; mandates OEM of hands-free cells in every auto which jams any secondary cell phone use in vehicle. OEM cell just happens to be linked to all vehical functions for the purpose of safety monitoring -similar to ON STAR- which in the case of emergency can be overidden to prevent your dangerous driving. It is all for everyones safety that someone controls your car when you won't/can't, right? Just my thoughts. Remember: ON STAR is ALWAYS on! Juan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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