Replacing Wheel Bearing: Can't get Tie Rod End off of Knuckle

[syphon]

Howdy!

 

So I'm working on replacing the wheel bearing on my '98 Legacy GT Wagon. Front Driver Side wheel bearing that is.

 

Things are going along well I suppose. I've gotten everything removed and gotten the axle out. All that's left is to pop the Tie Rod End out of the steering knuckle and pop the ball joint free.

 

On the tie rod end... i've pulled off the little castle nut from it, but for some reason, it still does not want to come free. I've even put a 3' crow bar on there and jumped on it... at this point I want to refrain from applying more force, as I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

 

Here's a pic of the connection in question. Does anyone know why this doesn't seem to want to pop free?

 

 

http://www.jayspang.com/pics/bearing.jpg

[D-Cal]

Can you borrow a tie rod puller from a local parts store? It's usually required.

[syphon]

Can you borrow a tie rod puller from a local parts store? It's usually required.

What's involved in that?

 

I thought pulling the TRE from the knuckle was as simple as pulling off the castle nut and dropping the stud out of the hole in the knuckle. I don't want to pull the tie rod from the steering rack, which is what I think you're suggesting.

[scrap487]

try tapping it out with a hammer? be careful not to damage the thread, use a peice of wood or something between the stud and the hammer

[syphon]

try tapping it out with a hammer? be careful not to damage the thread, use a peice of wood or something between the stud and the hammer

I've tried that. I've both hit it as hard as I could with a hammer (I threaded the nut on a little bit so it wouldnt mess up the threads) and I've leveraged a crow bar on it and stood on it... neither was sufficient to pop it free.

 

Basically, I'm trying to see if anyone knows if there's something I'm overlooking which is causing it to not come free. Do you think I just need to hit it harder?

[jamal]

It should just pop right out. The problem is that steel rusted steel is 7x less dense than not rusted steel, so a little bit of rust will expand 7x and make it pretty tight.

 

To get my ball joint out of the bent control arm, I had to use a tie-rod puller, a pry bar, and a hammer. Although once the puller was on tight and I was prying on the knuckle, it only took one shot with the hammer to fall out. And the ball joint has a tapered bolt, which should just fall right off (if it were new). I'd suggest renting a puller from autozone.

[cookie]

It is rare for one to be easy to remove without the proper tools. I have had to hit a pickle fork with a sledge hammer to remove one.

[syphon]

It should just pop right out. The problem is that steel rusted steel is 7x less dense than not rusted steel, so a little bit of rust will expand 7x and make it pretty tight.

 

To get my ball joint out of the bent control arm, I had to use a tie-rod puller, a pry bar, and a hammer. Although once the puller was on tight and I was prying on the knuckle, it only took one shot with the hammer to fall out. And the ball joint has a tapered bolt, which should just fall right off (if it were new). I'd suggest renting a puller from autozone.

I dunno, that's all well and good, except this is a '98 in Seattle (which means the car hasn't a spot of rust on it).

 

I got a bigger hammer, I'll try pounding it some more tomorrow. :-)

[scrap487]

hmm... well pb blaster/wd40 that thing all to hell(looks like you probably did) and do it every so often for a couple days, also a couple things that might help:

 

if its rusted try to break it loose a little by:

tighten the nut back on really tight(carefull not to strip anything) and hit it a few times with a hammer and take it back apart,

hit it with a hammer all around the sides of the joint, including in the opposite direction and then try to take it apart

take your pry bar, put as much for as you can on it(helps to have helper stand on it w/ 5-10ft pole) and take your bfh and tap the pry bar and/or the joint....

 

if your car is 8 years old and in seattle, there could very well be rust on it in places you dont know. if there is a zerk fitting I would also try greasing it and working things back and forth.

 

one other thing I might try, take a punch and put a small divit in the end of that bolt, and then take a 2 prong gear puller to it

[Setright]

I do believe the factory method is to slide a two-pronged fork in there and hammer on the end of the fork.

 

This will pull evenly and slip the tie-rod end out. A crow bar won't apply even pressure and you can't get that rod out if you don't pull straight.

[OB99W]

Does anyone know why this doesn't seem to want to pop free?

Even if there's no corrosion, the tapered joints sometimes just need a bit of "persuasion". Unless you're incredibly lucky or skilled, forks often wind up ripping a joint's grease retainer. If you don't intend to replace the tie rod, that may not be the best tool to use.

 

As has been suggested, you probably want something like this...,

http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=OTC6296

 

...to be used something like this:

http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/ccr/ccr20021001tr.html

 

Since the arms are not adjustable on these, be sure to get one that has the proper spacing so that it grabs as much metal as possible without damaging the grease retainer.

 

The ABS wheel sensor is nearby, so it might be prudent to limit the hammer blows. Usually if you crank down on the puller, tap not too violently on the sides of the knuckle, and again tighten the puller (keep alternating between the two as needed), the joint will pop free with a little effort. If you're working where it's cold, warming the knuckle a bit with a hair dryer might also help; don't overdo it, since neither the grease retainer nor the wheel sensor will appreciate that, and if you've used a flammable penetrating fluid, be especially careful.

 

I hope that helps. Good luck.

 

--OB99W

[D-Cal]

I thought pulling the TRE from the knuckle was as simple as pulling off the castle nut and dropping the stud out of the hole in the knuckle. I don't want to pull the tie rod from the steering rack, which is what I think you're suggesting.

 

They're usually stuck together. Hammering on the threaded rod will mushroom it or bend the tie rod, pickle forks can potentially rip the grease boot. Just go get a tie rod end puller, it's the correct tool and will have it out in minutes.

[frag]

You have been given good advice. But if you can't readily put your hand on the right tool, here's what you could do. The main reason, beside rust, why hammer blows have not worked is because the knuckle is now hanging from the suspension strut (I presume the car is on stands and the wheel is at the bottom of it's downwards travel) and part of the blows' energy is dissipated there.

I would jack up the car just enough to put something solid (pipe, steel bar, etc.) between ground and the part the tie rod joint goes thru (near the joint if possible or ground the whole knuckle or disk with anything solid. That would make all the energy of the hammer blows work on the separation of the joint. I use that method to pop the ball joint head from the knuckle. I think it should also work with the tie rod end.

In case it could help.

[tcspeer]

You have been given good advice. But if you can't readily put your hand on the right tool, here's what you could do. The main reason, beside rust, why hammer blows have not worked is because the knuckle is now hanging from the suspension strut (I presume the car is on stands and the wheel is at the bottom of it's downwards travel) and part of the blows' energy is dissipated there.

I would jack up the car just enough to put something solid (pipe, steel bar, etc.) between ground and the part the tie rod joint goes thru. That would make all the energy of the hammer blows work on the separation of the joint.

In case it could help.

I agree with frag, looks like you need to jack it up some to take the bind off of it.

[syphon]

You have been given good advice. But if you can't readily put your hand on the right tool, here's what you could do. The main reason, beside rust, why hammer blows have not worked is because the knuckle is now hanging from the suspension strut (I presume the car is on stands and the wheel is at the bottom of it's downwards travel) and part of the blows' energy is dissipated there.

I would jack up the car just enough to put something solid (pipe, steel bar, etc.) between ground and the part the tie rod joint goes thru (near the joint if possible or ground the whole knuckle or disk with anything solid. That would make all the energy of the hammer blows work on the separation of the joint. I use that method to pop the ball joint head from the knuckle. I think it should also work with the tie rod end.

In case it could help.

Thank you very much, I think this was the tip that did the trick.

 

I went out and bought a bigger hammer last night (all we have here is a tiny hammer and a full size rubber mallet, neither really worked well).

 

I grabbed a spare tire jack and jacked the steering knuckle up a tiny bit, then it took 2 or 3 good solid wacks to pop it free. I guess it helped once the whole assembly wasn't hanging by a spring, eh?

 

Thanks much for your help guys. I got the whole assembly off, and tomorrow morning i'll drop it off at a machine shop to have the new bearing pressed in.

[frag]

Glad we could help!

Since I think I will have to go thru the same thing in a not so distant future, I would be very interested to hear about the rest of the story.

How it went at the machine shop, what exactly did they do, how much it cost, etc. And the rest.

Good luck!

[syphon]

Glad we could help!

Since I think I will have to go thru the same thing in a not so distant future, I would be very interested to hear about the rest of the story.

How it went at the machine shop, what exactly did they do, how much it cost, etc. And the rest.

Good luck!

Well, the machine shop is charging me $60 to seperate the hub from the steering knuckle, pack the new bearing in, and re-assemble it.

 

While searching USMB, I found a thread of someone asking for "pre-built steering knuckle+hubs", because he thought he saw them for sale somewhere. However, nobody replied to it

 

I figure, I paid something like $80 for the bearing and seals, plus this other $60 for the machine shop. I also have to have a loaner car for a few days while my car is waiting for the new bearing.

 

If some shop sold a whole package, I'd probably buy it just to avoid having my car down for several days.

[flatoutcars]

Hi. tie rods are a tappered fit as in a triangle, they lock in very tight. Put a hammer on one side of the steering arm and hit it with a hammer on the opposite side ,it will work itself free.

[syphon]

I dropped the assembly off at the machine shop this morning. I'll be trying to put it all back on the car tonight.

 

Any tips on this procedure?

 

I figure I'll slide the axle in, then bolt it up to the strut. From there, I'll connect the tie rod end... then try to muscle the thing onto the ball joint.

 

The axle slid out super easy, I hope it goes back in the same. I've had bad experiences trying to get an axle free of the bearing

[unibrook]

This is what we always used on those a few years back, works well.

http://www.shop.com/op/aprod-p22258451-k12-g-~ball+joint+fork-nover

[syphon]

Dammit, turns out the bearing spun on the old hub so I have to get a new one

[D-Cal]

I feel your pain brother. Hopefully once all this is done you won't have to touch it again for a while. I forgot to change the dust seal on my Daytona once and had to change the bearing twice in 6 months. $150CDN a pop.

[syphon]

I feel your pain brother. Hopefully once all this is done you won't have to touch it again for a while. I forgot to change the dust seal on my Daytona once and had to change the bearing twice in 6 months. $150CDN a pop.

Oh, I definitely have to. There's a very loud hum coming from the rear, one or both of those bearings is on its way out too.

 

The car just turned 100k, so lots of things are wearing out.

[cookie]

I just air wrench them down, but if you don't have air squeeze the joint together by putting weight on it or using a jack. If the nut turns the threaded portion it can drive you a bit batty. I would think that would be the only likely problem, but sometimes the simplest thing can be a bear.

[D-Cal]

Every car has that "magic age" where stuff starts falling apart. Usually that's when they get traded. If you set aside some cash and go through them thoroughly, I find they go back to being nice reliable cars once again.

 

Every once in a while I get a yen for a new car, then I look at the cash outlay involved, the monthly decrease in my available cash and I come to my senses.

 

Good luck with your stuff.