98 2.5L head gasket?

[chris_a]

I'm a newbie on the board since my overheating Outback appears to have the head gasket issue. (new tstat & cap, has bubbles, overheats intermittently, but runs ok w/out tstat installed, but obviously cold) It's got +130K miles (2nd owner). Dealers here in Connecticut are quoting around $1800-2300!! depending on how much work the head/valves need. Cheapest est so far is independent subie guy at $1500-1700. Two questions: do valves typically need work in addition to the head milling? Is valve work standard on a HG job? Also, if water pump looks ok, should I still have him replace it? A couple of dealers told me they don't usually replace the pumps unless they're leaking since those pumps are typically trouble free. Advice there? Also, is the hydrocarbon test the definitive test to ensure it's the HG? I not sure if I'm gonna find someone to do it for the $1000-1200 range I've seen mentioned on this board. Thanks in advance for any help rendered.

[Glenner55]

I had the head gaskets done on my 98 GT wagon at about 130K. Done by a Subaru dealer in VT for $1200 about a year ago with no need for any other engine work. Now have 169K with no issues to date. New gaskets seem to solve the problem and there were no other signs of excess wear when the took the heads off.

 

 

Glenner55

[cookie]

Metropolitan areas tend to be more expensive. No test works 100% on these head gaskets when they start to go. The problem is they seal up when they are cool. When they get bad enough most of the standard tests work.

In your area I would be tempted to haul the car to Vermont or Maine if I could not do it myself.

When the engine is torn down the mechanic can see what else needs to be done, if you get a good Subie place they will have good reccomendations.

I'd check with the guy from Vermont and see where he had his done.

[nipper]

Dealers here in Connecticut are quoting around $1800-2300!! depending on how much work the head/valves need. Cheapest est so far is independent subie guy at $1500-1700. Two questions: do valves typically need work in addition to the head milling? Is valve work standard on a HG job? Also, if water pump looks ok, should I still have him replace it? A couple of dealers told me they don't usually replace the pumps unless they're leaking since those pumps are typically trouble free. Advice there? Also, is the hydrocarbon test the definitive test to ensure it's the HG? I not sure if I'm gonna find someone to do it for the $1000-1200 range I've seen mentioned on this board. Thanks in advance for any help rendered.

 

 

The hydrocarbon test can miss a bad head gasket, but it never gives a false postitve. Besides you have bubbles in the radiator, so game over.

I dont thnk anyone has ever gotten a vlave job at the same time as a head gasket unless they were burning oil.

Yes to the water pump .. as long as hes there, otherwise its murphy's law.

The dealer prices are high.

 

 

nipper

[Commuter]

I had a valve job done when my HG's were replaced on my 97 OB. They milled the heads, did the valves and did the shims to set the clearances. Even with all of this, it was about $1500 Cdn, which was around $1000 US at the time. (Today it would be more.) I didn't need seals or water pump or any of that stuff, since it had all been done at the prior major service for T-belt.

 

As has been mentioned, it's almost a "wait and see". If they heads are flat, then fine. If not, machine them (more $$). If the valves are good, fine. If not, then a valve job (more $$). Etc. You need a shop / mechanic you can trust.

 

Commuter

[idosubaru]

it is doubtful that you "need" a valve job. is the engine running poorly, knocking or buring oil? if none of that has been an issue yet then it is unlikey you need to touch the valves.

 

listen to the rest of the group about heads being machined. i would guess the heads are not warped bad enough to "need" milling but it's not a bad idea. the newer head gaskets should alleviate any future problems, so if they weren't milled i doubt yo'ud have a problem. that being said, milling isn't that expensive, $40 per head around here. much cheaper than a valve job at least. it's standard practice on a blown gasket, but on these tiny leaks caused by design flaws...i doubt it. i can't think of a reason to not have them milled, so if you can afford it, do it.

 

i just had a valve job done and heads milled on a perfectly good running engine before i install it in my car. would rather do it all right now then later.

[idosubaru]

definitely replace the water pump if it hasn't been done recently.

 

at 130,000 miles you might not need another timing belt until 200,000. i'd rather not gamble on a water pump lasting to 200,000. i know they can, but on these motors i wouldn't risk it.

[chris_a]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I found a local shop in Wolcott, CT specializing in subarus and when I met the guy he seemed honest & competent. He's gonna pull the heads and have them pressure checked ?? & milled and they'll check the valves but since he didn't think I really cooked it, didn't think I'd need valve work (got my fingers crossed). He also said he'll do the intake gaskets, cam & crank seals, valve cover gaskets, water pump, timing belt (did that 2 years ago!), plugs, & wires. It's gonna cost me $1500-1600 which seems to be the best I can do around here. I hope it's worth it in the long run!! Thanks again.

[cookie]

for an urban area.

[nipper]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I found a local shop in Wolcott, CT specializing in subarus and when I met the guy he seemed honest & competent. He's gonna pull the heads and have them pressure checked ?? & milled and they'll check the valves but since he didn't think I really cooked it, didn't think I'd need valve work (got my fingers crossed). He also said he'll do the intake gaskets, cam & crank seals, valve cover gaskets, water pump, timing belt (did that 2 years ago!), plugs, & wires. It's gonna cost me $1500-1600 which seems to be the best I can do around here. I hope it's worth it in the long run!! Thanks again.

 

get an oil change too if the temp gauge got really hot.

 

nipper

[Ranger83]

Metropolitan areas tend to be more expensive. No test works 100% on these head gaskets when they start to go. The problem is they seal up when they are cool. When they get bad enough most of the standard tests work.

I had mine done at 140K at Peabody, MA Sunoco for $1,250 including a few other items. BTW Peabody is about 15 miles from Boston - Metro mos def. Towing a car 300+ miles is not cheap.

 

Water pump had been replaced already. Changing it, along with spark plugs etc is worth it if you want to keep the car for a long time. If you're going to dump the car, no need.

 

My heads did not require any valve work. They were milled flat, a standard procedure when HG's are replaced and done relatively inexpensively at an automotive machine shop.

 

The best place I found to look for repair garages is the MechanX files at cartalk. http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/ I found 9 Subaru shops listed within 30 miles of Zip code 06010, which I think is Bristol. One with 4-5 reviews was PJ's Complete Auto Service in Waterbury, for example.

 

Many independents listed work on Subarus, but aren't so listed. Call around, most of them will tell you whether they've done it before, or not.

[cookie]

and is indicative of what you can get if you find that rare small shop that works on Subies. Sounds like you did your research shopping around.

I usually tow cars myself with a towbar or rent a trailer so the expense is not that great.

As long as a shop has good references and backs up thier work you should be OK. Metro areas tend to be more expensive because of higher rents, insurance, wages, and more stringent work rules.

Here in the Bay Area it is fairly easy to get sticker shock on most items.