Tick Of Death Muhahaha(FIXED! 12/30/05)

[[HTi]Johnson]

Yeah I just developed the TOD on they way home. (1987 GL-10 Turbo), it's pretty bad, and I know that MMO or Seafoam can fix it, but the question is: Does the TOD make your Knock Sensor sense knock and retard the timing?

 

Update:

Hello. I tried all the usual things to get the TOD to go away. Oil change, oil chage with lihgter weight with ATF and another with Marvel's Mystery Oil (MMO). Except for replacing the oil pump gasket (the mickey mouse one).

 

I replaced it and drove for about 2 miles and it was gone. Just thought I'd update in case someone did a search...now they have a solution.

[idosubaru]

Does the TOD make your Knock Sensor sense knock and retard the timing?

 

anything is possible but if you're having bad preformance it is most likely related to the valves not opening/closing properly because the HLA's are not doing their job.

 

best to track down the cause. you would want to know if it's oil supply related (oil pump seals) or HLA related (sticky/dirty). answering these questions will determine that.

is it all over the place, or isolated to one side or cylinder? have you had any recent oil loss or leakage?

[[HTi]Johnson]

Yeah, i need to get an OIl Pressure guage installed :-\, it sounds like it is coming from the left (driver's) side. So, if I don't have a guage, how could I tell if it is lack of pressure or sticky hvlas?

[idosubaru]

answering these questions will determine that.

is it all over the place, or isolated to one side or cylinder? have you had any recent oil loss or leakage?

 

if it's isolated to one cylinder (use a mechanics stethoscope or long piece of balsa wood to listen), then it is certainly related to one or both HLA's at that cylinder. a compression test can sometimes verify this if it's bad enough. good compression all around and bad compression at the one noisey cyilnder will point to a bad HLA. i'm confident in diagnosing just by listening, so you should be able to do that. nice to know which cylinder that way you know for sure which to replace if you ever have to pull it apart. regular oil changes and MMO, Seafoam or ATF treatment often alleviates noisey HLA's....particularly if they "come and go". if they tick all the time, they may be permanently seized. get 'em early and you can get them clean with oil changes and the above recommendations.

 

if you're leaking oil around the oil pump then that is a sure sign of oil pump issues. if all the HLA's are noisey then that's a good sign of oil pump issues as well. the mickey mouse gasket will essentially leak internally most of the time, so leakage isn't of great importance really.

 

have you changed/checked the oil level recently. fresh oil change never hurts.

[[HTi]Johnson]

The oil isn't over 1200 miles old...I try to change it every month.

[idosubaru]

good deal, follow the other suggestions and let us know what you find.

[froggymike]

I finally cured mine last month after I replaced the oil pump seals. I kinda miss being able to say my car has the TOD:)

[nkx]

the knock sensor is just a microphone strapped to the block. anything loud enough could probably make it retard the timing.

[Tycho]

TOD is no simple fix.

 

I have one lifter that still "lets go" when I'm ice tracking. The thing stays quiet when driving on the highway or around town however.

 

I've: replaced the lifters with new(er) ones, re-sealed the oil pump, installed a new oil pump, done the ATF treatment, changed oil weights, checked and re-checked the cam carrier o-ring...

 

My issue boils down to the bottom end I believe. Clearances were between .0015 and .0018 when assembling the shortblock (within spec). To do it again, I'd use new bearings on the "tight" side (I re-used my old bearings as they had no embedded particles and negligible wear) with some moly disulfide coating on them (from a place like Poly-Dyn). Then I could use 5-30 with tons of oil pressure to the heads. I'd target .0010 specifically...for mains and rods.

 

In the mean time, I have some 0-40 oil to try...and a cooler t-stat. I think they will both help (using anything thicker than a 5-xx makes it clatter until it warms up...anything thinner than a x-40 clatters when warm).

 

I think the ultimate solution to the TOD is an EJ swap.

[idosubaru]

if only one lifter is noisey, i would suspect that lifter, not oil pressure or main bearing issues. rebuilt lifters or cleaning them yourself is the way to go (but disassembly and reassembly is too time consuming in my oppinion). unless you have an ultrasonic cleaner, that may work better?

 

i would replace the two lifters on the cylinder you say is noisey with rebuilt or new units and go from there.

[[HTi]Johnson]

My car is taking a break right now, I need to get a Oil Pressure guage to see if my oil pressure is too low... if it is I'll get an Oil Pump gasket kit. When I take the pump off, how do I know if it is ok, usuable?

[Huckersteve]

if only one lifter is noisey, i would suspect that lifter, not oil pressure or main bearing issues. rebuilt lifters or cleaning them yourself is the way to go (but disassembly and reassembly is too time consuming in my oppinion). unless you have an ultrasonic cleaner, that may work better?

 

i would replace the two lifters on the cylinder you say is noisey with rebuilt or new units and go from there.

 

I too, believe i have the TOD. IT's the sticky lifter noise right? Sounds like somebody has disconnected one end of your piston or something and rattles furiiously for a while, sometimes louder sometimes better, but usually never sounds like anything good. Gets quieter after oil changes, and louder after long hard drives? Sorry to hijack...

[[HTi]Johnson]

Update:

Hello. I tried all the usual things to get the TOD to go away. Oil change, oil chage with lihgter weight with ATF and another with Marvel's Mystery Oil (MMO). Except for replacing the oil pump gasket (the mickey mouse one).

 

I replaced it and drove for about 2 miles and it was gone. Just thought I'd update in case someone did a search...now they have a solution.

[Hodaka Rider]

Yup, it's a little extra work to replace Mickey, but that's what usually causes the TOD. When it gets old, it can cause the pressure side to leak to the suction side, and not feed full pressure to the rest of the engine.

[EA82Loyale]

Nah...ticking isn't a good thing, but it doesn't mean your car is dead at all. It can be a number of things. With my car I found that when i changed my oil it stopped ticking...so it can be a number of things.

 

Also, my friend thought that he would shift my Automatic back into first when we were climbing this hill cause it was bogging down. You can't go over like 20 mph in first unless you want to fry something...he shifted down at like twenty five and i about flew through the window. It also started ticking after that incident cause it threw everything off...but it self-adjusted and it was fine after a while...

 

Good luck,

 

Bill