hush777 Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 My car (87 turbo wagon) started acting up about 2 months ago. I figured that it was the fuel filter. Changed that out and it seemed to get worse not better. Lately the symptoms have been getting much worse till a couple days ago when my son moved it and now it won't even start. Symptoms are when driving it seems to have a major hesitation around half throttle (just before the turbo light comes on), and also will hesitate at full throttle. Checked for spark (good at the coil and the #1 plug wire) pulled the line coming off the fuel filter and plenty of gas comes out. Pulled a plug and it is a little sooty but not bad. have shot starting fluid in the plug canister at the back of the air tube (film container looking thing at the back of the rubber between the air flow meter and the turbo. even tried shooting starting fluid right down the throttle body. There seems to be vacuum at the throttle body (sucks your hand down a bit) and pressure coming out of the turbo. So I am at a loss for what to do next. Check one of the injectors and am getting a pulse. Checked the screw at the rotor and cap and all that is fine. Any ideas??????? Hush P.S. Thanks Oops forgot to mention that the computer is showing no codes. Checked and cleaned the contact at the TPS but that didn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Since the car won't start even with starter fluid then I would check for a broken T-belt. The passenger side may have broken. Checking the compression will tell you the story about that. Since the spark is working this means the driver's side belt is ok as it drives the disty and the ignition. After you get it running then check these things. If you are getting some hesitation and jerking the problem may be with the fuel pump. They can have a problem like that, especially going up hills. You should also check the throttle position sensor for dirty contacts and the intake manifold gaskets for a leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Your original symptoms sounded to me like failing sparkplugs/wires. Just because they work under no load doesn't mean they work right (or consistantly) under load, which increases greatly under boost. I would check the T-belt as Cougar suggests, but I would insure the ignition is up to snuff before chasing any possible fuel related issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 MAF senosr the engine would die when the intake pipe would come disconnected, and would not start it acted like it wanted to go, but couldn't , similar to running out of gas it might start when you disconnect the maf senosr, and should idle worse, BTDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Since you have spark the driver side T-belt must be there but It is showing signs of a possible jump, one tooth at first now several teeth, could be a tensioner gone south. Get a timing light on it, it will flash (green connectors connected) even with the starter turning it. May want to pull the plugs - easier on the starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoostedBalls Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 F.A.S.T. Fuel- got it Air- got that too Spark- not verified, pull them suckers and check them out. Timing, check the belts and spark too. I like to mark the belts with a white line when I install them to make it easy to tell if they have jumped a tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 i like what boosted just said, keep it simple. verify spark at each cylinder. gotta know you got good spark at each cylinder before getting complicated. in my experience, the water temperature sensor is a notorious cause of problems. i've had it cause a no start with no CE light once before as well. the sensor will be fine, the contacts will be horribly degraded. i posted a thread about how to permanently fix it if your connector/contacts are corroded. pull the harness/connector off of it and make sure the metal is good and clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 throttle position sensor may be wonky. unplug it and see what happens do this with the MAF too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hush777 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 New update on progress. Was able to get tune up stuff and put it on. (Cap, Rotor, Wire and NGK's) Started right up. Took off for a test drive. (live in the middle of nowhere) Down the road we go. LOTS of black smoke puffing out. Spits and sputters a bit. Figured that it just needed to clear its throat a bit (lots of starting fluids and stuff to try to get it started. Pop from under the hood and it rolls to a stop. Pop open the hood and low and behold I forgot to tighten the plenum between the turbo and the intake....... Looking to tools.....looking for tools..... no tools.... wire cutters? Yep that'll work. loosen the clamp and push the tube back down and then tighen the clamp....... wants to start barely... doesn't want to run though. O yeah! the rear tire is flat..... looking for jack... forget the jack it's in the other car and the spare is sitting on the ground where I pulled it out to get to the engine stuff......HMMMMM would my family think to come looking??? Na! They think I can handle anything. Start the car and limp it home...... Looking and checking things. runs but doesn't show any spark on the #2 cyl through a timing light... Getting dark will play some more tomorrow. Gonna pull the plug and check the compression in that cyl and for spark at that plug. I did change the plug wire with the same one off of the wifes care (also a 87 turbo wagon) didn't change anything and hers runs just fine with the other wire. Hush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hush777 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Sorry for the late info. Throwing codes 33 VSS (Vehicle speed sensor) 34 EGR circuit 51 neutral switch? Hush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Hush Please humor me here, swap plugs wires #2 and #1 at the cap (they should be diagonal from one another) and try it. The EGR solenoid is causing the code violations. The others could be from it running bad or "ghost codes". Replace the EGR solenoid valve and clear them - see what returns. Hint: get a solenoid from a 80's Honda if you can, *big plastic box on the firewall in the engine bay They are the same ohm rating and last longer it seems. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hush777 Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Disconnected the TPS Knock sensor Maf didn't change anything. Put the distributor from the other one in there, didn't change anything and mine runs hers just fine. So not a dist. problem...... rechecked fuel (got plenty...) did the plug swap like you said Skip and it didn't help (ran different not better or worse.) I have an old MPFI turbo intake and I will swap some stuff and see it that helps. Also have an extra coil/ignitor unit to try. Cleared the code and they just come back. Disconnecting the vacuum to the egr seems to help a bit. Will have to pull the egr and check to make sure it is ok. Hush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hush, I hope you understood what I ask you to do put #1 wire in the cap where #2 is and visa versa If you did that I'm sorry to bring it up again as you said spark plug the ERG solenoid is the problem causing the code This code has nothing to do with the valve itself. The codes will not clear until the solenoid is replaced with a good one. hope this helps good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hush777 Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Hush,I hope you understood what I ask you to do put #1 wire in the cap where #2 is and visa versa If you did that I'm sorry to bring it up again as you said spark plug the ERG solenoid is the problem causing the code This code has nothing to do with the valve itself. The codes will not clear until the solenoid is replaced with a good one. hope this helps good luck I did change the wires only at the cap.... sorry about saying plugs I have several EGR solenoids to play with.... have taken to the nasty habit of moving them out of harms way (EGR and Purge) picture attached. Installed different coil and ignitor and seemed to be better but still ran rich and died when it got warmed up. Maybe the o2 sensor also On another note, had to do a drive in the other car (with my dist in it) seemed to be lacking in power..... I think I sprung a leak before the turbo (sounds like it at least) had me worried about the dist for a while there. Hush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hush777 Posted January 31, 2006 Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 The other car seemed really sluggish with my dist. in it. Changed back to the original one and all is back to normal. On my car I changed out the dist. to one from a SPFI and change the coil and ignitor to ones from a SPFI. Disconnected the o2 sensor and took it for a test drive down the road a mile or so. Seemed to be all better.... was able to do 5-6k on the tach. and due to the snow and slush 20 on the MPH guage. Will have to put some more gas in it and see how it does for a couple days. Hush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Heya Hush, I've had exactly the same troubles with my ea82t Vortex. Sluggish and spluttering on half throttle at about 2500rpm. I Think my problem however is just ***t plugs. I Had te engine die on me but managed to bring it back to life by cleaning the plugs and turning it over at full throttle for a few secs. Im looking forward to seeing this one solved as im afraid my soob will go the same way. KELTIK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hush777 Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 After changing out the dist it all seemed to be better. Still lacking a little power put not bad. The other day I had to go to Boise for some materials and went 65 miles towards it to borrow a truck, got the materials and stopped where my car was, son wanted to borrow car to run down and check on a jimmy that he might be partners in, seemed like he was having problems getting it to get up and go. Didn't think much about it he sometimes has problems with vehicles (operator malfunction) took the truck home unloaded the materials and headed back down for my car. Stayed the night and in the morning the car started but not well. Got out of there and looked in the rear view mirror and it looked like and old diesel. Lots of black smoke. When the turbo like was on and I was in the throttle a bit, after about 5 second it would pop and act like it wanted to die. Back out of the throttle and back in and it would be ok. Stopped for gas (it went through about a half take in 22 miles) and it wouldn't start. Looked at stuff pulled sensor wire off and still no start. Thought to myself that if it was running that rich then it at least needed more air. Pulled the tube from the PCV to in intake phlenum before the turbo and it ran. Limped it home and was still giving off a bit of black smoke. Gonna change the MAF with the one from the wifes car and see if that changes anything. Hush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hush777 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 Still looking for any ideas. Have checked the maf tested fine. Thought maybe the fuel pressure regulator was leaking fuel into the intake but no. Still giving out lots of black smoke going down the road.. Hush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Compression test that engine. All four cylinders, take all the plugs out and comp. test it. check the spark at each plug wire, it should be a nice blue color. Very bright. My friend had a car that would start and run like crap...turned out to be a crappy coil wire...the spark looked yellow like a flame. What about ignition timing....needs to be 20' BTDC with green connectors connected. The black smoke could be a burnt exhaust valve...happened to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Jim Maple Ridge Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Can't help thinking vacuum leak. TPS or plugged exhaust. Turbos hate vacuum leaks. and it could be as simple as a bad oil fill cap. A bad TPS doesn't necessarily show a code. You should also check for ground at the MAF. My 87T caused me a pile of grief with that one. I still haven't had time to trace a harness to find out where the connection is, I just re-grounded mine to the shock tower. Lastly, while unlikely if you have enough flow to show black put the back, a plugged catalytic can make any motor run badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Yeah.. I'm feeling a vacuum/boost leak here.. The black smoke, the hesitation just before the turbo light comes on. The fact that your intake plenum popped off (not judging.. I've done that too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 That fact his plenum popped off would mean too much boost, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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