Another head gasket question

[Grover]

This is my first post here, in fact my first day on the site. I started doing some web searching after learning that our 2000 Outback with 72k miles has an INTERNAL head gasket leak. The car got the coolant conditioner treatment 18 months or so ago. The car overheated once about 10 days ago and after taking it into the shop the said the only thing they saw wrong was that it was about 1 quart down on coolant. They topped it up and said to keep an eye out. Well, the coolant continued to drop quickly and I saw smoke coming out of the tailpipe. Back to the independent shop and they confirmed an internal leak. Next day drove to the dealer and they also had the same finding but said it won't be covered since it's internal vs. external leak. Has anyone else faced this same situation? Did anybody have any luck getting Subaru to pick up the tab for this repair? Why is it only applicable to external leaks? Thanks in advance everyone.

[The Dude]

Long story, short. The 2.5L DOHC Phase I engine had a lot, and I mean a lot, of internal head gasket failures. Subaru's reponse was to come out with the 2.5L SOHC Phase II, and basically stiff the Phase I owners when their warranties were up. Subaru would fix Phase I engines with blown head gaskets IF the car was still under warranty. After 60,000 miles the Phase I owner was usually SOL.

 

Ok, Subaru has the Phase II engine, no more head gasket failures, right ? WRONG. While the Phase II did not have the same number of INTERNAL head gasket failures as the Phase I engine, the early Phase II engines had a surprizing amount of EXTERNAL head gasket failures. Subaru came up with a pretty slick "fix". A bottle of stop leak, and a guarantee against EXTERNAL head gasket failure for 100,000 miles. So, your engine is covered for ALL head gasket failures for 60,000 miles, but you're past that. The 100,000 mile warranty is for EXTERNAL head gasket failure. So, basically, I'm sorry to say that you may be screwed. Check the 100,000 mile warranty and makes sure it specifies external head gasket failure ONLY. Let's us know what happens. Good luck.

[idosubaru]

better yet, run your car hot until the overheating blows the headgasket EXTERNALLY and then take it in...maybe to another dealer.

 

people can and do get cars fixed after the warranty period, but it requires good touch or good people skills or threats, or persistence or some combination of all of these. just asking and accepting they're first answer will rarely get you anywhere. good luck.

 

i say install a 2.2 liter motor, they never blow headgaskets and are much better motors for reliabilitythough have less power.

[cookie]

What nust have happened is that the external leak your dealer checked and passed tuned into an internal leak after you overheated. I see this as covered myself and I think so will your lawyer.

[1 Lucky Texan]

I agree with the above, tell the steal - uh - dealership you want to talk to the zone rep about covering this in good faith as a drivetrain warranty issue. Then if that goes no where, ask him how HE would feel in your position and if he would get a 'third party' involved. I'd bet you could at least get FHI to comp the labor and you pay for parts. I dunno

[Grover]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. If anybody is keeping track of this thread, the update I got today is that Subaru is "going above and beyond" by picking up the cost of the head gasket repair even though the leak was internal, not external. We will apparently be responsible for anything else they find while in there such as damaged cylinder heads, but fingers crossed we're going to be covered. Looks like Subaru may have just held onto a customer.

[idosubaru]

good deal, that's great news. doubt the heads will have issue, should be fine.

 

is it time to think about new timing belt, pulleys and water pump while it's all apart? better to have this all done and good to go for another couple years then go through another major repair soon.

 

i just looked back, 72,000 miles. i'd probably think about having the belts, pulleys and water pump replaced and oil pump resealed while it's all apart...if they'll do it for reasonable charge anyway. i'd ask. you're looking at a timing belt job in 25,000 miles...that might only be a year away or less for some. dealer quoted my cousin $699 to replace her timing belt this summer on a 2000 2.5 liter. i did it for cost of parts. otherwise this major expense will be upon you soon. the overheating (if extensive) and taking apart won't help the life of the belt anyway.

[Grover]

Thanks for the recommendation. Honestly though, just before the gasket blew we were getting ready to sell the car, most likely to buy a new Legacy. I think we're just going to get the HG fixed and sell it. I know, kind of cheesy perhaps, but sometimes you've got to decide when to cut your loses, and that time is now for me.

[idosubaru]

not cheesy at all. many would try to sell it without bothering to fix it right. you're doing it the right way, congrats.

[cookie]

That means an excellent car is going to come up for sale. To a lot of us head gaskets add a lot of value. At least get a belt on there.

[super20dan]

my 2002 outback had internal head gasket failure at 44k! wife tried to drive car home and ruined both heads and the radiator blew out. subaru picked up the tab with no fight but i wont ever buy another subaru. there is no excuse for a defect like this to go on for this long. i will buy a toyota as soon as the rest of the waranty is up.

[tomasr]

I heart that Subaru released in 2001 and beyond does not have "head gasket blow" problem? Is it true?

[jim.nicholls@cagents.com]

Dude,

 

I have a 2002 Legacy with 64000 miles and it just starts leaking coolant from the drivers side head gasket. Do you know of a 100K mile warranty that might cover this on my car?? I can't find any reference to it in the manuals.

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

Long story, short. The 2.5L DOHC Phase I engine had a lot, and I mean a lot, of internal head gasket failures. Subaru's reponse was to come out with the 2.5L SOHC Phase II, and basically stiff the Phase I owners when their warranties were up. Subaru would fix Phase I engines with blown head gaskets IF the car was still under warranty. After 60,000 miles the Phase I owner was usually SOL.

 

Ok, Subaru has the Phase II engine, no more head gasket failures, right ? WRONG. While the Phase II did not have the same number of INTERNAL head gasket failures as the Phase I engine, the early Phase II engines had a surprizing amount of EXTERNAL head gasket failures. Subaru came up with a pretty slick "fix". A bottle of stop leak, and a guarantee against EXTERNAL head gasket failure for 100,000 miles. So, your engine is covered for ALL head gasket failures for 60,000 miles, but you're past that. The 100,000 mile warranty is for EXTERNAL head gasket failure. So, basically, I'm sorry to say that you may be screwed. Check the 100,000 mile warranty and makes sure it specifies external head gasket failure ONLY. Let's us know what happens. Good luck.

[cookie]

Take it in to your dealer, Subaru has been pretty good to phase 2 owners.