WJM Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 AND they take up dead weight. I, and many others, have come to the conclusion that the stock rear bars, of ANY size, are 100% useless and only its only purpose is to add unsprung weight to the car. The FRONT however...is like any other EJ subie...and works just fine and as intended. Still, its weight...so I took it off. No more push. Rotates like a certin RS I used to codrive...aka sideways on demand... SSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..................I'll be playing w/out swabays from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do It Sidewayz Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 well...you just gotta know what swaybars really do...they just increase your effective spring rate. If you are running really stiff springs anyways, who needs a swaybar. personally. i chucked the front, and left the stocker in the rear...handles and rotates just great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 I remember when I forgot to hook the front up....on a stock susp. RX....somewhat unfun as it was sorta...unpredictable. A lot of the WRX and STi guys are running 700~1000 and up spring rates...so bars dont matter, like you said. eventho with my rates (450/350), I *SHOULD* need bars...but to me, the car feels better without. I am sure that with *PROPER* bars on the front and rear...it could improve the handling...but I just dont have time to make new front endlinks, spend the $$$ on a new whiteline XSF33XXZ bar for STi (27MM) or the Strano 32MM... and ESPECIALLY for the rear I dont have the time or $ to sink into designing a new bar, mounting and endlinks that will work the way it should. So, away go the bars and here come the springs and dampers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 am currently running the rears on my six and i am loving it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizzle Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 wait, I thought you went back to stock struts. I just hate the amount of body roll on my RX, and I want it to handle like my legacy does (kyb agx struts, and adj rear sway) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Interesting comment from someone who sells swaybars (and other goodies) for a living. AND they take up dead weight. I, and many others, have come to the conclusion that the stock rear bars, of ANY size, are 100% useless and only its only purpose is to add unsprung weight to the car. The FRONT however...is like any other EJ subie...and works just fine and as intended. Still, its weight...so I took it off. No more push. Rotates like a certin RS I used to codrive...aka sideways on demand... SSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..................I'll be playing w/out swabays from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who1981 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 On 90s stock Subies sway-bars are quite helpful. I put a stock sway-bar (the lager of the two, 18mm I think) on the rear of my 94 Leg wagon...It made a HUGE difference in turn-in and response, also I was no longer under-steering, in fact I could get just a touch of over-steer. Even moving up a stock size can help turn-in, and eliminate factory under-steer...My friend had the spindly (15mm or less?) rear bar on his 97 Impreza, We went to U-Pull-It and got him a fatter one off of an early 90s Legacy...it made a large enough difference that even his wife asked what we did to the car to make it feel sportier. :cool: My 2¢ Ciao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 Interesting comment from someone who sells swaybars (and other goodies) for a living. *I* dont sell them. *I* am a Performance Engineer. I am *NOT* a sales person. *I* only recommend them to people up to a certin level. Say, they want a great handling STi but not spend over $800...then bars, springs, tophats, and its done. Handles great. Price up to 1200? Same but with better springs. 1400~2000? Add in some nice D2/Tein coilovers. Over that? depends on how long you want yout kidneys to last....no bars, 1000F/700R LOTS of rebound and just enough compression...get that digressive chart going on with the valving. Lots of caster. Whamo, done. I never recommend bars for an EVO as the stockers are quite hefty as they are....some good coilovers balanced for the car, corneer balance and align on install and its done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 wait, I thought you went back to stock struts. I just hate the amount of body roll on my RX, and I want it to handle like my legacy does (kyb agx struts, and adj rear sway) I've had 'stock' struts since the beginning of time. W/out the bars, I have no increased bodyroll over when the bars were on there. My spring rates are over 2x what stock is. My springs are controlling the body roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelRX Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Yes, but how's the ride? Cushy I suspect.(sarcasm) Swaybars are the factories way of compromising for ride quality. I'd like to make an adjustable swaybar for the rear of my RX I still drive mine on the street and would prefer to abuse my kidneys by other means than beating them to death. What's the spring rate F/R on your car right now? Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 450F/350R Its actually a nice ride when the REAR SHOCKS are working...right now they are...not working...so the rear bounces around TOO MUCH. The front is nearly perfect. Even in a 2.5 RS with 10k/12k (560F/672R) springs, the Teins had the correct valving for them and the ride was very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelRX Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 A heavier spring in the front? What's your rationale? I have always thought that a heavier spring in the rear combined with a bit of toe-in caused less understeer and induced sharper turn-in with an all wheel drive car. I have alway treated the RX as more of a front driver when it concerns set-up. LSD not withstanding. I will admit I'm not as hardcore as you seem to be with the Solo 2. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do It Sidewayz Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 A heavier spring in the front? What's your rationale? I have always thought that a heavier spring in the rear combined with a bit of toe-in caused less understeer and induced sharper turn-in with an all wheel drive car. I have alway treated the RX as more of a front driver when it concerns set-up. LSD not withstanding. I will admit I'm not as hardcore as you seem to be with the Solo 2. Jay you are generally correct on the springs. I run 250F/200R, on my rally car...i would run a pile stiffer for the tarmac stuff, but we do need to go over bumps, and jump the car once and a while. What i have found makes a big difference on these cars is having the back end 'in the air' If you set the back a little higher, the swings around really nicely. Toe-in though...No no no!!! To get the car to turn in, you need some Toe-out...!!! A little toe-out in the front will help innitial turn in, and some toe-out in the rear will help the car rotate, but gets a little hairly at high speeds (for solo 2 this is a mute point) A pic to illustrate...this is my ice racer...it's running stock struts/springs...but that really is best for snow/ice. I'm running 2wd struts and springs in the front, and i think wagon stuff in the rear...you can tell how the rump roast end is 'in the air' And here's a pic of my rally car...again you can see that i generally set the rump roast end a little higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 A heavier spring in the front? What's your rationale? I have always thought that a heavier spring in the rear combined with a bit of toe-in caused less understeer and induced sharper turn-in with an all wheel drive car. I have alway treated the RX as more of a front driver when it concerns set-up. LSD not withstanding. I will admit I'm not as hardcore as you seem to be with the Solo 2. Jay Its about percentage of weight distruibution. You want to support the car per the weight distribution. While it is true heaver rears will make a car rotate...its a bandaid. an AWD car is not a FWD, or is it a RWD. It takes on the attributes on BOTH at the same time and its a different animal to make it work like it 'should'...even now people are just now beginning to figure it out. Stompy, one of the top Street Prepared STi's, runs 1000lb front and 700 rear with no bars. Toe settings are unknown...but it works great. Plus, if you notice, alot of the Jap coilovers come with the higher rates up front...i thought it was backwards until I looked at the physics of it all.... I NEVER run anything but zero toe in the front. Any in or out hurts steering return and the overall feel of the car. Rear toe is where its all at. If you need to make a car rotate fast, toe it out all the way. It'll scare your azz off, but it'll be loose as a goose. Toe in makes the car more stable. In the end, I will have a TINY bit of toe in and about -.75 in the rear. ZERO toe in the front, with about -2.5 camber and hopefully +6 castor. Right now I am close to that and the car is working suprisingly well on the POS street tires. As for the back in the air....never worked for me on tarmac. The lower I took it, the better it was. TOO low i finally found...and I've been raising it back up. Seems like about 1/2inch of fender gap on the street tires is best for the Rcomps and the streets. I will most likely end up running 700~800lb in the front and 500~600 in the rear. NO BARS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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