nicky nighteyes Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 OK I am fresh out of ideas, so its time to ask some advice. My problem is as follows: My car is not outputting the correct voltage. This is universal across the entire electrical system as everything is dim (from headlights to dash lights). With the car off battery reads at 12 V, and with a full load the bat terminals read 10-11 Volts or sometimes as low as 9V. The alternator does not seem to be charging the system, as it requires as jump next time you turn on the car (most of the time). I cannot for the life of me figure out what is causing this. Steps I have tried so far: swapped alt swapped bat (known good) swapped coil new battery terminals and fresh wires to starter and grounds(pos and neg) Cleaned up every ground to sparkly and cleaned all terminals Wired alt directly to battery with fresh wire No change. Help? oh and btw its an 1983 EA81 wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 internal or external regulator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 internal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Not a clue. Should have been the alt+grounds. Did you check the positive charge wire from the alt to the batt for resistance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 not to up on various names for volt testing is that checked by placing a lead on bat neg and another the alt positive charge wire? if so, yes checked out ok, reads at 11.86 (same output I am currently getting with engine on when testing pos neg bat terminals, but this is with new bat) Not a clue. Should have been the alt+grounds. Did you check the positive charge wire from the alt to the batt for resistance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 hmm, thinking about this, IIRC didnt all EA81 alts come with an internal voltage regulator? I assumed mine is internal because of this, or am I mistaken? internal or external regulator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 just got done running through snowman's tests for voltage drop found here this is with the NEW battery and cleaned grounds etc. seems like there was several probs going on as when I tested prior to doing any replacing numbers were lower and grounding problems were apparent 1. open circuit voltage: 12.12 voltage on pos/neg terminals with full load: 11.56 2. one lead on the alternator case and one on the terminal on the alternator 11.56 (indicates alt prob) 3. one lead on the battery positive and one on the terminal on the alternator, .0 (connection is now fine this was prior .6) 4. Place one lead on the battery negative terminal and one on the alternator case .0 (this was prior .8 grounds are now good) I guess this means the THREE alts I have swapped in must be all bad. unlikely but possible. Tommorow i will swap in a KNOWN good alt and see what happens. Will of course post an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Bad alternator; should output >14 at 2000 rpm (maximum 14.5 or so). Battery will only charge to the maximum alternator voltage, so if the alternator only puts out 11.5 volts, don't expect the battery to put out 14! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrand Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 suggest testing the alternator(s) at auto parts store to verify they are bad. If a bench tested good alt fails to produce 14 volts at 2000 rpm then there has got to be a wiring problem-make sure ground wire between engine and frame is good,and trace wires from other terminals on alt (F, S?) and make sure they are not pinched, broken, or otherwised hosed up by a blown fuse, or burned out charge indicator light , etc. Consult a detailed schematic of your specific car. Let us know and good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 run wire from bat+ term on alt to battery + run wire from alt case screw to battery - run wire from battery + to terminal of fuse link box check fusible links, IIRC a green one haldles the charge check 15a fuse, should have low voltage when NOT running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 two quick thoughts you have a external voltage regulator alt on a car built for an internal VR (yes early EA81's had an external VR it also ran the fuel pump on some early Gen I's) Or vise-A-versa or a bad fusible link (must be tested with a multimeter) possibly a burned out "charge" lamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 subiemech85: I will try running fresh wires to everything you suggested, little to hungover today though, will have to wait until tommorow Skip: how could i tell which is the case? if there is an external regulator where is it located? btw fusible links tested ok how would a burned out charge light affect the situation? known good alt also goes in tommorow, if that dosen't work and the new wiring dosen't pan out. I will have the alts tested at the auto parts store. thanks for all your advice to all who responded. updates as they come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Captain, I got out the 83 FSM, it says you should have an internally regulated alternator Hitachi model LR155-15C might check the number against yours. It is acting like a non internal regulator alternator without it's external regulator. or The charge lamp provides the excite voltage for the internal IC voltage regulator. If the lamp is burned out or missing the regulator will not excite the field winding an thus the alternator will not charge. This excite circuit travels through fuse # 4 in the fuse box might check it also. Note: I have seen these type alternators with the excite terminal (small terminal on back of alt) directly connected to an ignition switched hot wire. Hope this helps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 thanks for looking that up Skip, good to know I have just put in the known good alt, model LR155-15C. still no change. However throughout the duration of this problem the "charge light" has not come on, fuse is fine but no light. So.... couple questions: first, if someone could explain the purpose of the wires on the alt. I know the one connected by a nut is a hot wire, and i have tried running it directly to the pos bat post. BUT what about the t-plug? One hot and one ground? secondly Skip, can i bypass the excite circuit by running the hot wire you mentioned? is that the larger of the t-plug wires? or how do i repair or replace the charge light? not familiar at all with it. I am assuming there is a bulb in the dash, but have no idea how to get to it. run wire from bat+ term on alt to battery + done (as long as alt + is the wire with the nut) run wire from alt case screw to battery - run wire from battery + to terminal of fuse link box done check fusible links, IIRC a green one haldles the charge done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobs Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Make sure your battery is fully charged BEFORE making voltage tests. If your battery isn't fully charged, your voltage will be low even though your alternator and everything else is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Sorry Cap'tn Both wires in the "T" get a positive battery voltage from the ignition switch. Try that and see if we get "charged" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 So I should hook both T wires to pos bat post? Sorry Cap'tn Both wires in the "T" get a positive battery voltage from the ignition switch. Try that and see if we get "charged" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 for a test yes for a semi permanant solution they should be to an ignition switched hot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 roger that, will try it and update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 SUCCESS!! You nailed it Skip. After wiring up a spare t-plug directly to pos bat terminal, started her up and guage immediatly jumped up to where it should. Quick multimeter test showed 14.56 outputting from the bat while running. YES!!!!! So.........whats your advice now? Just wire t-plug connections to igg-switched hot wire? (any suggestions for a wire near the alt I can tap into?) or try and fix the charge lamp? My eternal gratitude to all who helped me with this, especially Skip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 You're most welcome, as for my help... put this under the blind squirrel and the nut catagory I would attempt a proper repair as something else could be knackered. The close by ig switched hot wire? The main feed for the head lights is always hot when the ig switch is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 put this under the blind squirrel and the nut catagory a quick update: wired both t-plug connections into the headlight assembly and took her for a thorough test drive. Voltage seemed fine on startup but seemed to drop after driving around a bit (at one point back down to 8V, at least according to the in dash gauge, kinda hard to stick a voltmeter on the battery while driving....) I could tell the alt was charging though...as it climbed sporadically with the RPMS. Further investigation is required, Of course another battery of voltmeter tests is in order. Then I am going to double check those t-plug connections and secure the wires down nice and tight, and maybe run an extra ground off the alt like subiemech suggested.. an extra ground or two off the bat woulden't hurt either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Capt'n you are sure you got the hot feed to the headlamps? It is the only one with full battery voltage when the key is on. FSM says it's a Red with Blue stripe on the driver's side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I had one on the red w/ blue stripe, but the other on the red w/ white. I have corrected the problem, and according to the voltmeter everything checks out. However the in dash guage still reads low sometimes (prob just the guage itself) and I havent had a chance to take it for a test drive yet, we will see how she does..........this time I am taking the voltmeter with me! Capt'n you are sure you got the hot feed to theheadlamps? It is the only one with full battery voltage when the key is on. FSM says it's a Red with Blue stripe on the driver's side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nicky do as you like but the red with white is the high beam ground It may cause some problems. It may look like it has voltage until you hit the high beams at that point it goes to ground good luck, Skip -- over and out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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