soobcollektor Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hello all, I am relatively new to the 2.5 world, I used to work at a stealership as a tech's assistant but had to quit when I started college. I'm used to the 95 and older soobs, but so far I like the 2.5 and have have done a headgasket job on one and have 2 more cars needing them replaced, a 98, and a 99. I used to help on headgasket jobs all the time at the dealer but never had the opportunity to own this engine because at that time I had my 95 LSI with the 2.2. Anyways on my other 99 Outback I have 138,000 miles and no headgasket problems although I am unaware if they have been replaced or not, BUT I filled up today and calculated 13 miles per gallon. I could'nt believe it, the car runs awesome, plenty of power and no CEL. What could be causeing this? This is not the first instance of this poor mileage but it has never been this low. Any insight on this would be greatly appreciate as I hear the price of gas in on the rise again. Thanks Tim, formerly fldcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 if you have a heavy foot your mileage can drop substantially depending on driving conditions. what kind of driving are you doing? if this is all highway miles then somethign is wrong. if you're accelerating and decelerating all the time with a heavy foot in stop and go traffic then it might not be too far off. check your brake calipers. make sure they are working properly. make sure the calipers slide smoothly and the slide pins are greased. check the pads and look for abnormal wear. turn each wheel by hand and look for abnormal or uneven resistance. post anything out of the norm. check tire pressure (though it shouldn't bring mileage down that much). how many miles on the car? any CEL lights, any recent work done to the car? any noises? manual or automatic? AWD or FWD? how many miles per week are you driving? gas cap might not be sealing tight. when was the last time the spark plugs were replaced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Oxygen sensor maybe? I'm assuming you're taking miles driven (via the odometer) and dividing by number of gallons put in the previously full tank, right? Not going by the fuel gauge at all? Some people have posted here saying, "I only get 200 miles to the tank!" but they only have to put in 10 gallons when the gauge says it's on E. The lowest I've gotten in my 97 is 19, that's city driving, stop and go, winter time, lots of warming up in the morning. 13 sounds really low w/o some sort of problem IMO. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 I have somewhat of a heavy foot depending on my mood, and its combined city and some (but more city) driving. I just did a 4 wheel brake job to the car, new rotors and pads all the way around, everything is and sliding properly, I clean off the rust on the caliper bridges and check the calipers and they are all good. Tire pressure is perfect all the way around, I run what the one tech always told me to run in my cars when I worked at the dealer, 32- 33 in each tire. 138,000 miles on the car, no recent work done to it other than I resealed the oil pump and changed the timing belt about 10,000 miles ago. No check engine lights, and its an Auto AWD, the amount of miles I drive a week varies substantially. The gas cap looks to be in good condition and im assuming its sealing properly cause would'nt that trigger a CEL? As far as the plugs being changed, I changed them when I did the timing belt at or around 10,000 miles ago. The one thing I did notice last night, I went out to the store, 10 miles round trip, and came home to vacuum it out, well I left it run while I went to get the vacuum and when I got out of the car I noticed the exhaust smelling. It smelled kinda like that smell you get when your following a car up a steep hill and you can smell their car kinda "working" to get up the hill. Like a somewhat sulfurish smell. Maybe unburnt fuel or something....What could this be? And yes I use the odometer, it seems that every one of my soobs gas guages are off, but instead of fixing them I'd rather just use the odometer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Cal Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Sulphur smell could indicate a plugged catalytic converter. Another possibility is that your coolant temperature sensor or associated wiring is malfunctioning and causing the car to run rich. If the car is running rich (for whatever reason), this could also cause your catalytic converter(s) to fail, foul your O2 sensor, etc. compounding the problem. Also, if you are in fact running rich, be careful - excess gasoline can remove the lubrication of the rings in the combustion chamber and cause serious engine problems. I would figure this problem out soonish without driving the car too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Could it have anything to do with the EGR valve. After typing my last reply I remembered when I first got the car, The check engine light came on, so I had the code read and it was an EGR something, I dont remember what though since its been a while, Then the light went out on its own and I think it came back on for like 1 day again a month or so after that and thats been the last of it. I'm sorry I didnt remember this sooner, It totally left my mind untill I was thinking about that CEL. There is no light now though, but could this have something to do with this. I do remember when the light was on the car seemed to have LOTS of power. I wish I could remember the code that it threw......but I know it was something to do with the EGR valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 ---Update--- The car has been hesitating just a little bit, but still no CEL. It only seems to hesitate when you give it gas to downshift or when you take off from a stop light, it is a slight hesitation but it is noticable. What could be causing this?? I havent been driving it much in fear of hurting something... Am I going to damage anythign by driving it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosDiosDeVerde86 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 if anyone got to read my controversial thread "the ANTI gas mileage thread" then you'll understand my position on this topic. so, i'l just say: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 First off, I'm not complaining about the poor mileage in my car, I love the car and would never part with it, I am just inquiring as to why my gas mileasge has dropped to 13 mph from over 20 with really no signs other than an extremely random CEL, which doesnt come on any more, but isnt burnt out. I've been working on Subarus now for almost 7 years and have never seen a problem come up like this with no traces to the cause, I am tending to believe that it has something to do with EGR but i'm not sure because I would assume that the CEL would be on. Once again, I wouldnt complain about my car because I love it, I would just like to get a little better mileage like I used to. Gas prices are going back up and being a commuting college student i'd just like to save a little $$. Anyways...any insight on this will definetly be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugbyben Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Maybe read my recent thread on the code po420. I know you dont have any codes, but i experienced a loss of gass mi. and the code makes us suspect the cats. i got the computer flashed after it was found out that the idle was set way too high for cold starts. This resulted in running ritch until it warmed up and hence probably caused the loss in milage and even the cat problem codes. OR the cats are actually bad also...The jury is still out at the moment.... we will see if i get the cat code again. In my experience with other vehicles (never with such sophisticated on board computers). having a bad cat can result in the loss of milage and the smell you encountered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Could be a bad tank of gas, could be a dying cat converter. the next tank of gas, go to an amaco station and by premium (its going to hurt). If its two concecutive tanks of gas, i would look at the O2 sensors and the cat. One bad tank of gas milage is something to watch. two is to be investigated. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 if anyone got to read my controversial thread "the ANTI gas mileage thread" then you'll understand my position on this topic. so, i'l just say: I drive my wife's car hard. It has an A/T, and still gets well over 20MPG combined. If yours is under 20, you need to get it fixed. You can get 17MPG out of a V8. 13 MPG is very bad soob, and you need to get it repaired. Some EGR valves can be reoved and cleaned, not sure about this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosDiosDeVerde86 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I drive my wife's car hard. It has an A/T, and still gets well over 20MPG combined. If yours is under 20, you need to get it fixed. You can get 17MPG out of a V8. 13 MPG is very bad soob, and you need to get it repaired. Some EGR valves can be reoved and cleaned, not sure about this one. first off, yeah, 13 is bad and needs to be tended to. maybe mine could be tended to as well, but that's how it's been since i bought it 4 years ago. also, i don't have a gas pedal. i have a go and stop button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlelegacy Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 i don't have a gas pedal. i have a go and stop button. Priceless. On a side note, my 93 wagon's mileage sucks balls too. I'm lucky to get 20 city. I can get 20 with going back and forth up to the ski hill and if I go 60 or 65 in Eastern washington, I might get 27 if I'm lucky. Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosDiosDeVerde86 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Priceless. On a side note, my 93 wagon's mileage sucks balls too. I'm lucky to get 20 city. I can get 20 with going back and forth up to the ski hill and if I go 60 or 65 in Eastern washington, I might get 27 if I'm lucky. Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 Well, put some gas in her tonight and calculated mileage....14.4!! What an improvement :-( There is still no check engine light but it is still hesitating a bit on start (like at a light) very little in fact that no one seems to notice it but me, but I know it is doing it because I can hear it when I give it gas with the window down. I did'nt put any premium and there isnt any Amaco stations around here, We mainly have Sheetz and Citgo with the exception of the Giant Eagle Get Go station and a Kwik Fill. I try to run either Sheetz or Citgo. I almost wish that damn CEL would come back on so I can get the code. Autozone has no way to check stored codes they told me, Could an EGR valve cause this, Should I replace it or take it off and clean it. I know the code that I got was definetly related to the EGR. Maybe EGR Flow Malfunction? I can't remember. Or should I lean more towards the O2 sensor and the cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Maybe someone else here knows but I thought codes were stored in the memory even tho no CEL is present at the time it is read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Me too, but I've never actually checked. I thought they stayed till they were cleared. I have only ever had two codes and I cleared them after reading so I am not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 Im pretty sure it stores the codes to, but auto zones little computer scan tool can't pull them they said. I really dont want to go to the dealer but maybe I could talk to my one mechanic friend that I worked with and see if he can hook me up for free. I dunno though it pretty much depends how busy they are and stuff. I just keep hoping for it to come back on again but no go so far. I just want it fixed and I don't want to hurt anything in the meantime so I havent been driving it much therefore not giving the light a chance to come back on. Im leaning more towards O2 sensor due to the mileage and i'm sure it was never replaced but it may be EGR I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 It stores the codes. ALso you can check parimeters on the fly to see hat sensor is reading what. I would rent the code reader for a few days and play with it. When was the last time this thing had a tune up (fuel filters, pcv plugs wires). Things to check with a multimeter, throttle position sensor, O2 sensors, knock sensor. When do you gte the hesitation. Have you lost any top end performance (this would be a clear sign of the converters clogging up) nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 The car had a tune up not that long ago....less than 10k ago. I didn't replace the wires because they seemed ok. I get the hesitation when I first take off at a stop light it just seesm to hesitate for a split second then goes fine, as far as top end power it doesnt seem to have lost any. The car itself seems to have a ton of power almost more than normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2X2KOB Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Does your CEL even work? It should come on when the key is turned to ON prior to starting the engine. It COULD be a burned out light bulb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 Yeah the light does work, I checked that. I'm just out of ideas here. It only seems to hesitate when it is fully warmed up if that helps any and it is'nt a constant thing only at some take offs do I notice or hear it. :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodakjones Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Yeah the light does work, I checked that. I'm just out of ideas here. It only seems to hesitate when it is fully warmed up if that helps any and it is'nt a constant thing only at some take offs do I notice or hear it. :-\ I am having the same problem 13 mpg and hesitation do you also have a low idel at stop sings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobcollektor Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 I am having the same problem 13 mpg and hesitation do you also have a low idel at stop sings? Yeah sometimes it idles a bit lower when you pull up to a stoplight but it seems to correct itself. The last tank of gas I got much better mileage and the CEL light is still off, so maybe your problem is a bit different? What other symptoms are you having? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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