OK where to start

[gyuunuuya]

Ok I bought my wife a 92 subaru legacy, and had some probalems with the AWD function not working because all the wheels were in 4WD and weren't free of each other but all lockes in sequince like a truck 4WD. Anyways I took the driveshaft out and that fixed the problem.

 

Now even since I bought this 92 subaru legacy automatic wagon, I've had problems with it.

 

1) When I first bought it the car would start fine cold but had trouble starting warm. The engine would crank when the engine was warm but wouldn't keep the idle.

 

2) couple weeks after I got it the exact opposite happened, engine cold engine fires but won't idle will imiediatly die. Ok no problem we dealt with it.

 

3) Check engine light starts to blink on and off when u put the car into drive for the entire time u drive the car. Fixed it with a post it and a sharpie (covered it up).

 

4) Ok now it's 4 months later and now when the engine is cold the engine don't even crank all I hear is the started clicking once and that's it. Must try several time which at this point has gotten into like 20-30 mins to start the car.

 

5) gas mileage has always been horrable on the car not bad, I mean horrable like 12 MPG, with a light foot.

 

6) last clue to the puzzle when the car isn't started and I push the button on the automatic lever next to the ignition I hear *CLICK* and when I release the button again click.

 

Now I would assume that it's a killswitch from a old car alarm or something and I need to mess with the wiring, but I actually here the starter solinoid kick in so I'm pretty lost.

 

Any help guys

 

Thanks in advance

[Dickensheets]

If it were me...

 

start with a new temp sending unit and thermostat. Both are cheap and will enable you to eliminate the cheap fixes first. Both can be done in your driveway fairly quickly. If you are unsure of the procedures order a "Haynes Manual".

 

rd

[gyuunuuya]

If it were me...

 

start with a new temp sending unit and thermostat. Both are cheap and will enable you to eliminate the cheap fixes first. Both can be done in your driveway fairly quickly. If you are unsure of the procedures order a "Haynes Manual".

 

rd

 

Already got one.

 

So you think that the engine wouldn't turn over because of a temp sensor?

I bought a new thermastat months ago but never put it in. Alos I changed the O2 sensor, and sparks.

 

thanks for reply BTW. I f you think it'll help I'll do it today : )

[Dickensheets]

The temp sensor won't cause the cranking problem.

 

That is almost certainly a weak battery or corroded terminals combined with cold temps.

 

Clean the terminals with water and baking soda, then smear with dielectric grease available from the autoparts store. Remove the teriminals for this for thorough cleaning at the contact surface.

 

In some cars place the ignition in the "on" position prior to reconnecting the battery terminals. Not sure about yours, either way you wont hurt anything.

 

rd

[gyuunuuya]

The battery terminals are in perfect condition.

 

The car isn't struggling to start it's not even turning the engine at all.

 

Good thinking though. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[tunered]

you need to pull the starter and replace the contacts in the selonoid,they get pitted from all the previos starts and wear out.

[Chef]

Or do what I just did and replace the whole starter assembly. I had a similar problem, sometimes just clicked, sometimes turned slow, other times fine. Now it seems to be fine. Hey, I figured I might as well replace the whole thing once I had it out.

 

BTW, I found the bottom nut (17mm) on the starter mounting required me to go from underneath the car - there were simply too many hoses in the way from above. The top 14 mm bolt was a cinch to remove.

 

 

you need to pull the starter and replace the contacts in the selonoid,they get pitted from all the previos starts and wear out.

[gyuunuuya]

Or do what I just did and replace the whole starter assembly. I had a similar problem, sometimes just clicked, sometimes turned slow, other times fine. Now it seems to be fine. Hey, I figured I might as well replace the whole thing once I had it out.

 

BTW, I found the bottom nut (17mm) on the starter mounting required me to go from underneath the car - there were simply too many hoses in the way from above. The top 14 mm bolt was a cinch to remove.

 

Cool thanks alot guy that's sounds like the problem alot. I will ltry to do it tommorrow and post back here if it worked.

 

Alos do any of your subaru's out there (automatic) before u start your car if u push the button on the stick does it make a loud CLICK noise coming from the ignition, like around where your keys are undeernesath the steering wheel.?

[Andyjo]

That click is a switch which lets the key come out if you're in park, if not, you can't get the key out. I had a problem with the pin that switches the switch (the pin fell out), and there was no click, and my key was stuck in the ignition!

Ended up ripping out all the trim and glueing the pin back in place.

As for you're first 'problem', you spoke of the car acting like it was in 4WD all the time, that's torque bind, but that drive train back in, and change your ATF a few times, do it, drive around a bit (do some circles in a parking lot, it mixes the atf nice & good), change the fluid again, drive around more... you get the point, do it like 3 or 4 times and you should be good to go. The reason you do it more than once is because you can only get say.. 50% or less of the fluid out of the tranny when you pop that drain plug. when i did it i cheated a little and jacked up the other side of the car to get more out ALSO make sure all your tires have roughly the same circumference (within 5% of eachother), if not it can mess up the AWD, and give you some MORE torque bind.

12mpg... you might want to check the O2 sensors, sometimes they don't throw a code and are still bad.

umm.... if i think of anything else i'll let you know.. my starter is crappy but i just deal with it..

[gyuunuuya]

WOW thanks alot that was very informative. I'll have to buy a ************load of tranny fluid now.

 

Hopefully I will have time tommorrow, if not I'll have trime on monday and try all the things people suggested so far and let u guys now which ones worked.

[Chef]

Or you can do what I did and go to a shop that does a tranny flush and only change it once. However, I warn that this did not seem to fix my torque-bind. Although now it has been a few weeks, and I haven't noticed it for about a week now.

 

 

 

WOW thanks alot that was very informative. I'll have to buy a ************load of tranny fluid now.

 

Hopefully I will have time tommorrow, if not I'll have trime on monday and try all the things people suggested so far and let u guys now which ones worked.

[Andyjo]

WOW thanks alot that was very informative. I'll have to buy a ************load of tranny fluid now.

 

Hopefully I will have time tommorrow, if not I'll have trime on monday and try all the things people suggested so far and let u guys now which ones worked.

i think when i flushed mine.. i used 4 of those big jugs of atf =P

[mudrat79]

As far as your poor milage and hard start cold or hot.....I have found several times now on the 90-94 Legacy's that the idle air control valve goes bad or is sticking internally.....And WILL NOT THROW A CODE.....? or May as you have said will make the code light blink while driving....?

 

This unit is just to the passenger side of Center on the intake at the back side of it....You will find a Large hose ( about 3/4"-7/8") running from it to the air intake just under the Maf....

 

If this unit is gummed up or carboned up it can stick cuasing all kinds of weird grief.....

 

It sounds like you have already checked and done the other things related to this , so I would check it next....

 

Also, HAve you checked the thing for actual codes....? It might tell you exactly where the problem is.......

 

Good Luck, John

[gyuunuuya]

Teah I did the code read outs, and they all seem to have come up bunk.

 

I replaced the O2 sensor, the Mass air flow sensor, and the last code which seems like the only one that was correct which was abnormal signal from parking switch LOL.

 

Cool I'll check out that unit too maybe dip it in some gasoline or carb cleaner, and see if that helps.

 

You guys rock I'll hopefully do it tommorrow was slammed all day today and couldn't do anything on the car.

[gyuunuuya]

OK I pulled the starter apart and the motor was in great condition, then I puller the starter solinoid apart and one of the contacts was crooked and smashed to hell on one side.

 

So I went to the junkyard and pocketed some brand new contacts from some old rump roast subaru legacy probably an 86'. It's amazing on the subarus they had there all the engines have exactly the same layout no matter what year I saw. Anyways the contact I got wasen't exactly like the old one but I put it in crossed my fingers and it worked.

 

Thanks alot guys now I gotta fringin get the stupid gas mileage up. I'll try that sensor you guys told me about first and post back again.

[Cougar]

I would check for a intake manifold air leak and the ignition area for any problems.

[Log1call]

If you're thinking of changing the starter it would be a good idea to test the solenoid before you take it out of the car. There is a small wire that is fed power from the start position of the key switch, sometimes because of a bad connection somewhere or a faulty switch it only gets nine volts which isn't enough to make it work. All you have to do to test it is get a small wire and feed power from the battery into the small terminal on the starter, if it cranks then the starter and solenoid are both fine. You can fit a cheap relay between the battery and starter and drive it with the original starter wire.

[gyuunuuya]

Ok sorry for the super long wait guys. It's been awhile since I posted the main thread here.

 

Anyways I busted open the starter and BAM one of the contacts were shot, all smushed into itself. So I went down to the junkyard and cracked open another starter from a subaru there, was wrong year and later I found out wrong part but it still worked . I took the starter apart and *cough cough* bought the little contact that was small enough to fit into my pocket.

 

Slapped in the new contact and put everything back together, turned the key and almost had an orgasm . Finally got at least the starting thing working.

 

Ok now I'm still not liking the fact that the car has horrible torque bind, and is getting crappy gas milege (200 miles to the tank roughly 14 miles to the gallon). So even though I had the driveshaft out this whole time I decided it would be nice to get the AWD working, and maybe for some odd reason might fix gas milege problem.

 

Ok so yesterday and today spent most of the days trying to fix problem, he's what I did and found out.

 

1) Replaced tranny fluid (Automatic)

 

2) Replaced rear diff fluid (which had almost no viscosity)

 

3) Replaced front diff fluid

 

4) Took transfer clutch solenoid off new tranny I got for car and never used (been sitting in my garage)and ohmed it out at 600 Ohms

 

5) Ohmed out transfer clutch solenoid on the subaru and it's ohms out correctly

 

6) Connected positive terminal of battery to transfer clutch solenoid and hear a click click sound when I touch then contacts together which means it seems to be functioning.

 

7) The little magnetic thingy that connects to the front diff that I'm guessing tells the computer if the transfer wheel is spinning which I will call from now on a widget, I ohmed out as well. Also got a correct reading from the car.

 

8) When I first bought the vehicle I replaced all tires with same brand and size new ones, and air pressure is fine.

 

Tommorrow I am going to replace the transfer clutch solenoid, and inspect the gear in the front diff to see if there is any evidence of binding.

 

In case I forgot to mention it in initial post the car is a 92 legacy wagon AWD non-turbo.

 

If you guys can tell me anything else that you think might be helpful, I would greatly appretiate it.

 

Thanks in advance

Going crazy over torque bind.

 

Also I found this website useful if anyone else has torque bind.

 

 

http://legacycentral.org/library/torquebind.htm

[rcoaster]

Since you removed the rear driveshaft, that's where you're wasting gas. The way the AWD works, it starts off with 50/50, then transistions to 90/10. So, without the rear driveshaft, you had about 10-50% power going to thin air.

 

Once you get the torque bind cleared up and the rear driveshaft back in, you get all the power coming off the tranny going to the wheels. One quick question, didn't you try the FWD fuse? You could do this without removing the rear driveshaft. The FWD fuse disengages the transfer clutch (while the engine is running only) and makes it a FWD drive car. People here who have complained about the torque bind use the FWD fuse as a back-up so they could still get around and eventually to a shop to have it resolved.

 

RC!

[gyuunuuya]

Since you removed the rear driveshaft, that's where you're wasting gas. The way the AWD works, it starts off with 50/50, then transistions to 90/10. So, without the rear driveshaft, you had about 10-50% power going to thin air.

 

Once you get the torque bind cleared up and the rear driveshaft back in, you get all the power coming off the tranny going to the wheels. One quick question, didn't you try the FWD fuse? You could do this without removing the rear driveshaft. The FWD fuse disengages the transfer clutch (while the engine is running only) and makes it a FWD drive car. People here who have complained about the torque bind use the FWD fuse as a back-up so they could still get around and eventually to a shop to have it resolved.

 

RC!

Oh yeah forgot to mention I had the FWD 20 amp fuse in car the whole time the car was missing the driveshaft.

 

Also the fuse doesn't help the situation at all. ( with or without the driveshaft in)

 

Another insteresting thing I forgot to mention is that, sometimes when going up a hill with the fuse in place and no driveshaft, and only sometimes, but especially on steep hills, the car would stop accelerating, and just push really hard but not go anywhere. As if the car was doing the 90-10 except the 90 to the rears and 10 to the front. I would floor it and the RPM's would shoot up and the engine would act as if it was under load but wouldn't go anywhere, it would keep losing speed until (verying on the steepness of the hill) it hit like 40 or 60 MPH.

 

Hope that might raise a few eyebrows.

 

Alos thxs for helping understand why I'm losing so much gas. That makes alot of sense.

But then again if the computer thinks it's in 2WD mode then it shoudn't be wasting gas trying to distribute power to the rear, right?

[gyuunuuya]

Ok if anyone else has this problem I'm gonna post what I did to fix it and have pics and crap.

 

Do a search for torque bind on main page.