edrach Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Replacement engine (EJ22) seems to be okay. It runs smoothly, doesn't smoke, and seems more peppy than the original. One thing it does is take a long time (about 15 to 30 seconds) to return to idle from about 1600 rpm when I come to a stop. It throws a CEL when I restart it after it's fully warmed up; CEL goes away instantly when I put it in gear and drive off. I'll check the code tomorrow when I can see again. Any thoughts? No other CEL codes during 80 miles of driving around town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunered Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 im taking bets on the temp sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 im taking bets on the temp sensor.That would be good since I have a brand new one on the original engine manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 check the code and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 That's a problem for this weekend. But a slight update, the CEL hasn't come on for the last two days. I checked the engine compartment again and found the radiator overflow was down about two inches from the initial level. My suspicion there is there may have been a air bubble in the coolant that's gone; that could have confused the temp sensor and triggered the CEL momemtarily. It could also be the start of head gasket issues so I'll be watching that. check the code and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beezer Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Have checked out the TPS and the IAC? That's my short and sweet response. Good luck Beezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 I'm suspicious of the IAC (obvious choice) but hadn't thought about the TPS. I've got a real time monitor for the voltages to both on my laptop and it occurred to me today I should have it in my car tomorrow to look at the voltages from those two as well as the temp sensor. I haven't done it as yet since 25 straight days of rain are starting to addle my brain beside discouraging driveway troubleshooting. (By the way, thanks to Legacy777 and VRG for the laptop utility to monitor the voltages). Have checked out the TPS and the IAC? That's my short and sweet response. Good luck Beezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 I'm beginning to think the high idle is normal. My old engine suffered from low idle for so long I think I believed the high idle to be abnormal. Anyway, it seems to be limited to the first 5 minutes or so after starting the car....goes up to 1600 or so and stays there and then slowly coasts down to around 1000. I'm not so concerned about that now although I still think it's not quite right. I got a CEL again today after 3 days of no CELs. Happened again starting with a high idle condition (but after the engine was fully warmed up) but when it drifted down to 1100 or so it wasn't steady but went up and down give or take a 100 rpm or so. I had the laptop hooked up to the OBD1 connector and was monitoring the IAC duty cycle. Normally, high idle occurs when the duty cyclcle is 50 to 55% and as it drifts down to 20% the idle follows it down. When I got the CEL, the idle was oscillating around 1000 rpm and the IAC duty cycle was still at 54%. I suspect the ECU didn't like that disparity and threw the code. Again, as I drove off the CEL disappeared and everything seemed normal for the rest of the trip home. I'm not sure how the IAC actually works, but I suspect the ECU controls the % of opening electrically and sometimes the mechanical doesn't follow it resulting in the erratic idle and the CEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beezer Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I'm thinking there could be a problem in the top electrical part. If there is a bad connection there somtimes, for whatever reason this could screw around with the idle. Now don't quote me on any of this but to throw a code does there hafe to be a disruption in the current somewhere in the IAC. Or can it be thrown just by being outside the parameters of what is correct according to the computer. I don't think a code will be thrown just because the duty cycle is high. I have had problems with my IAC, you can try this if you want. Get some small pieces of wire and some small connectors and hook them up to the IAC. Start the car and disconnect 1 of the wires (I would try the A or C connection)and see if you can get the car to behave like it does when it is being stupid. The car will probaly start to idle around 1100-1200 rpm and bobble around. Might help Good Luck Beezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 What year is your legacy? Use this and let us know how your readings compare to what the normal is http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru/techinfo/select_monitor_dsht.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 /91 Legacy, non-turbo wagon. I was using VRG's scantool to get the measurements. I can make sense out of most of the items although my '91 has different names for some of the items. I'll take a run tomorrow with that sheet and report the values I read with the bcbfscan utility. Thanks. What year is your legacy? Use this and let us know how your readings compare to what the normal is http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru/techinfo/select_monitor_dsht.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 Here are the measurements using the bcbrscantool on my '91 Legacy: Battery voltage, engine off: 12.24V " " , egine at idle: 13.86V Water temp after warm-up: 180 degrees F Ignition timing: 24 degrees BTDC (engine cold) Air flow signal: 1.20V Load data: 57 Throttle sensor: 4.76V at idle; volts drop off with more throttle. Fuel injector timing: 2 ms at idle Idle air control: 36% when cold at idle O2 sensor: 0.7V Max O2 sensor: 0.85V Min O2 sensor: 0.04V Correction coeff. of a/f ratio: ??? Ignition timing correction: 0 degrees Barometric pressure: 750.87 torr Fuel trim: 0.78% to 2.34% No CEL during these measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 I finally got around to pulling the codes (thanks Josh for the great write-up). Here they are: 14, 15, 16, 17, 24, and 35. First four are the injectors, 24 is the IAC, and 35 is the Purge Solenoid Valve. I'm really not too concerned about the codes since they happen so seldom, but I do want to address them. The 24 is likely the most critical since it's related to the intermittant slow return to idle speed (which is happening less and less often). I'm not sure I care about the Purge Solenoid; anyone know what it does other than run something through the charcoal canister? I'm wondering whether running a can of Seafoam in my next tank of gas will do something good for the fuel injectors as well as the IAC. My engine is a former JDM engine with 50K on it in someone else's car which I just installed two weeks ago to resolve the massive blowby issue of my original engine. It had only been sitting a month after a massive clutch failure. I would expect it has a total of 80 to 100K on it and runs well (certainly better than my original engine). Looking for input here since I'm treading on new/unknown territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beezer Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I would clear the computer by disconnecting the baterry for 1/2hr or so. If the CEL comes back then check the codes again to see what there. Some of those are probably not exactly "true". The fuel purge solenoid can cause some idle issues I guess, I've read of people driving the car for quite a while with no real issues though. It simply lets the gas vapours from the charcoal canister go into the engine. The computer controlls when it opens and closes. You can clean the IAC, it is probably more effective if you take it off, you can just shoot some cleaner at it while it is still in the car if you want. Since this doesn't happen all the time this may be a pain.... but anyways. When the car is fully warmed up and you shut it off and turn it back on this is when you get the CEL right? When you turn the car off, take the IAC off and check to see if the shutter is closed if it isn't that is probably your problem. Just another thought. Good luck Beezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 I get the CEL only occasionally. Engine is warmed up and I come back, start it, and get idle around 900 plus or minus 100 (pulses slightly). At the same time I get a IAC duty cycle reading of around 55% which should result in an idle around 1800 rpm. CEL goes off within 5 seconds of my putting it in gear and driving off. My suspicion is that the IAC doesn't open consistently and causes that CEL. I'm discounting the Injector errors since the car runs too well otherwise. I would clear the computer by disconnecting the baterry for 1/2hr or so. If the CEL comes back then check the codes again to see what there. Some of those are probably not exactly "true". The fuel purge solenoid can cause some idle issues I guess, I've read of people driving the car for quite a while with no real issues though. It simply lets the gas vapours from the charcoal canister go into the engine. The computer controlls when it opens and closes. You can clean the IAC, it is probably more effective if you take it off, you can just shoot some cleaner at it while it is still in the car if you want. Since this doesn't happen all the time this may be a pain.... but anyways. When the car is fully warmed up and you shut it off and turn it back on this is when you get the CEL right? When you turn the car off, take the IAC off and check to see if the shutter is closed if it isn't that is probably your problem. Just another thought. Good luck Beezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I've helped some people with problems trying to clear engine codes. The canister purge solenoid can cause issues and prevent all the codes from clearing. I'd suggest putting in another canister purge solenoid if you have problems clearing the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Thanks Josh. No I haven't tried to clear the codes yet (too much rain out here to play in my driveway). Will disconnecting the battery actually do it on my '91 or should I follow the procedure for clearing ECU codes as per your website? Thanks again for your help. I've helped some people with problems trying to clear engine codes. The canister purge solenoid can cause issues and prevent all the codes from clearing. I'd suggest putting in another canister purge solenoid if you have problems clearing the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Congrats on the engine swap, Ed. I agree with Beezer--cleaning the IACV might help. Unfortunately you pretty much have to take it out to do a really thorough job. Did you replace the coolant temp sensor as Tunered suggested? Made a big difference in my '95 L awhile back. If you want to try the Seafoam trick I suggest you suck it into the intake/upper cylinder area through a vacuum tube to be most effective. Might want to try some fuel injector with Techron in the gas tank. I'm not big on gimmicky additives but the stuff worked well for me. At any rate, good luck on getting it smoothed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Congrats on the engine swap, Ed. I agree with Beezer--cleaning the IACV might help. Unfortunately you pretty much have to take it out to do a really thorough job. Did you replace the coolant temp sensor as Tunered suggested? Made a big difference in my '95 L awhile back. If you want to try the Seafoam trick I suggest you suck it into the intake/upper cylinder area through a vacuum tube to be most effective. Might want to try some fuel injector with Techron in the gas tank. I'm not big on gimmicky additives but the stuff worked well for me. At any rate, good luck on getting it smoothed out. I was thinking of replacing the temp sensor since I had gotten a temp code on the old engine and have a 30 day old OEM sensor in the old engine. But I'm not getting any temp codes and the scantool indicates normal temps everytime I've accessed it. Thanks for the suggestions; I'll be trying something to loosen up the IAC when I get enough information together. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Thanks Josh. No I haven't tried to clear the codes yet (too much rain out here to play in my driveway). Will disconnecting the battery actually do it on my '91 or should I follow the procedure for clearing ECU codes as per your website? Thanks again for your help. Pull fuse 14 (EGI/TCU) from the driver's side kick panel fuse box. Remove it for about 30min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I was thinking of replacing the temp sensor since I had gotten a temp code on the old engine and have a 30 day old OEM sensor in the old engine. But I'm not getting any temp codes and the scantool indicates normal temps everytime I've accessed it. Thanks for the suggestions; I'll be trying something to loosen up the IAC when I get enough information together. Thanks. How old is the current temp sensor? If it's old....I'd recommend replacing it. They can cause issues, and still test fine, and look to be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 How old is the current temp sensor? Unknown, but I suspect it's quite old. Original car has 240K on it; JDM engine was installed at 190K with original manifold as far as I know. I pulled engine and used it's manifold instead of my own so it's conceivable the temp sensor is original; certainly no less than 50K if it was replaced when the JDM was originally installed. Update: I queried the previous shop that serviced the car that the JDM engine came out of and they never replaced the temp sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 I tried clearing the codes by pulling fuse 14. I left the fuse out for more than 6 hours since I was using the Brat for work yesterday. Codes did not clear; they are still there. No CEL today on my 30 minute drive to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I replied to your PM. Replace the canister purge solenoid with a known good one, and then try to clear the codes again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Purge solenoid is on order from 1stsubaruparts.com; I'll have it tomorrow and it'll be in as soon as I have a dry evening or clean out the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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