Subarutex Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Suck. Plain and simple. I've tried 3 times with these gaskets, on the same engine. I can't get them to seal right. Another $180 blown on trying to make a 'strong' engine. History: Blew 2 sets of 'oe' headgaskets. BAD. (ya boost!) Ordered fancy copper head gaskets... nearly $200 in cost, with the special spray sealer. Have heads faced. Assemble engine per HG manufacturers instructions. Use brand new head bolts. Engine doesn't hold compression. Runs, but bad... log <50 miles. Take apart, and reassemble. Over torque to 60ft/lbs. Engine runs like poo... oh wait.. improperly installed rings, causing blow by, and loss of compression! Thanks guys i paid $800 for short block for. Re-ringed block, reinstalled head gaskets, over torque to 60ft/lbs again. Spend weeks tuning it, timing it. Getting it just right. Nearly 500 miles on motor. Oh, whats that... an oil leak? Seems to be pretty big. Oil pump? no, cam cases? no, Head gaskets? hell yes! Well... using a little oil is negligable. Car still runs strong. HOurs later... why do i have to flog the car to start from a stop? Oh... its like driving a car with low/no compression. Car is now engine less. Engine lies in pieces in the garage. OE head gaskets going in. In summation, the only thing I DID NOT try was to get both the block, and the heads mirror polished. Maybe thats the million dollar secret? Atleast they'll look good hanging on my wall... or maybe yours! check my thread: Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Thanks Tex. Makes my ordeal seam alittle better Hate to suggest it, but maybe less boost? -Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanislru Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I never did understand the benefit of copper HG's. Copper distributes heat really well so they've got that going for them I gues but aside from that? Copper has no "memory" once deformed it stays that way. It's soft. I dunno?? O rings aren't too much money to have installed, and there's tons of guys out there who've DIY'd and done quite well, 25 psi is more than enough for me. If you were near me I'd buy you a few beer guy cause I know the frustration that you've had. I wish I'd bookmarked the DIY o ring stuff. Good luck with the rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Thanks Tex. Makes my ordeal seam alittle better Hate to suggest it, but maybe less boost? -Brian Only motor I blew up due to boost was on the stock turbo at 12psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahDL88 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Tex, when i get back to Seattle, i'd be more than happy to help out in any way i can, anything between the bumpers i can fixor, especially clutches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 I never did understand the benefit of copper HG's. Copper distributes heat really well so they've got that going for them I gues but aside from that? Copper has no "memory" once deformed it stays that way. It's soft. I dunno?? O rings aren't too much money to have installed, and there's tons of guys out there who've DIY'd and done quite well, 25 psi is more than enough for me. If you were near me I'd buy you a few beer guy cause I know the frustration that you've had. I wish I'd bookmarked the DIY o ring stuff. Good luck with the rebuild. Copper doesn't do this: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2774&sort=1&cat=500&page=2 It just doesn't seal anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Cal Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Try a decent MLS gasket and some ARP studs instead of bolts. Be sure to follow ARPs torqueing instructions to the letter, including the lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Try a decent MLS gasket and some ARP studs instead of bolts. Be sure to follow ARPs torqueing instructions to the letter, including the lube. Yeah... I've probally done the most foot work trying to get some ARP studs made. I dropped the ball though when it was $600 for a set, half of that being 'custom' done. Even with 10 people buying a set, only got down the $400 range. Still to exspensive for 98% of the people here. MLS? Similar to a Cometic HG? I thought someone was looking into those, but they also had a ridicolous price tag ($400+) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanislru Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I was hoping that group buy on the studs would happen, bolts are the real issue. I'd bet with studs you could hold 15psi reliably(fueling issues aside) for a long time. Down as low as $400 for a buy of 10? I figure I spend $110 each HG job I do plus my time so about $250. Could pay off a set in about 1 year at the rate I've been going lately. A bad injector was heating things up good and I didn't find out till the 2nd go around. They sound like a great deal to me @400. If we could piece a buy together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Cal Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 MLS stands for Multi Layer Steel. I'm a relative newbie to Subarus, but many turbo imports in various arenas have been using them with good success. From your carnage pic it looks like there's a weak spot in the design unfortunately. Fel Pro makes a "Permatorque MLS" and they do list some Subaru applications, not sure if they make them for the earlier motors or not. Cometic also makes a good gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoostedBalls Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I have run a couple of these engines at 20psi with no head gasket issues and I drive it like I stole it. I only use copper head gaskets on watercraft engines because the inability to seal as good as stock gaskets. I would never consider using copper on these engines after seeing how well they handle 20psi. If yours failed at 12 psi, the boost is not the issue. Timing or something else. Just remeber to keep the RPMs up when you are under boost. Higher the revvs, less detonation. Climbing a long hill at low RPM is WAY more harmfull than blasting up it in low gear with the revvs up. Only motor I blew up due to boost was on the stock turbo at 12psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I have used copper gaskets on other engines with lots of success. I don't understand what you are talking about when you said, "I DID NOT try was to get both the block, and the heads mirror polished." Why would they need to be polished, the copper would mold to the imprefections, maybe the polishing was the problem. All of the engine that I used copper head gaskets on were cast iron, not aluminum, maybe there is a difference there also. Sorry to hear about this, wish I had a spare EA82T sitting around that is not in a driveable car. You could always by my wagon for $1500, it has a fairly new engine in it (less then 500 miles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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