SUBARU BAJA... 16K miles and Engine with problems.

[omancini]

This is a copy/paste of a letter that I submitted last Friday the 10th to SUBARU America... I am really concerned.

 

My name is Jose O. Mancini and I am the owner of a 2004 SUBARU BAJA Sport (VIN 4S4BT62C647102213) since June 2004.

 

On May 2004 I bought a brand new SUBARU Forester for my Wife. After that experience I decided to buy a SUBARU for myself, after some research I found that the BAJA was the right one for me.

 

Now I am having several issues with this car that I did not expect at the time that I toke the decision. At this point my biggest concern is to identify if the problem is really the car by itself or the Service Dealer (Eddie Accardi) that I have to use (“I have to” because there is no other SUBARU dealer in the area).

 

I will try to describe in some points the problems that I am having:

 

a. On 03/07/05 the car was taken to the dealer because the battery hold-down has been replaced under warranty because of corrosion eating the metal plating.

b. Around October 2005 a ticking noise started to be heard while the car ran at about 20 miles an hour when the vehicle was still cold. I also discovered that the battery hold-down was rusty again. I decided to mention both issues in the next 15000 miles service.

c. On November 21st the 15000 miles service was due and I requested to the service dealer to perform the service and take a look for this problem that I thought was in the transmission. I did not expect to be charged U$258.95 for this service, since it was such a complex sort of activities on my car I requested the vehicle check-up in order to confirm that everything was OK after all the inspections on the car. When I went to pick up my car later that day the check-up was not ready and after 20 minutes waiting the Service Manager hands me the paper. Regarding to the noise neither the invoice nor the Service Manager gave me a conclusion. Regarding to the battery hold-down the parts were ordered so I had to wait for Eddie Accardi to contact me.

d. Two days after the service I realize that the vehicle check-up had indication that everything was wrong with the car and a note indicating that “the oil was darker than frequent…” (?). I decided to mention that part when the Dealer contacts me regarding to the parts that were ordered in order to fix the battery hold-down issue.

e. On December 16th I sent a FAX to Mr. Guy Regan (Service Director) indicating my concerns regarding to the vehicle check-up; the lack of response related to the problem with the noise and the battery hold-down. No answer came from that person.

f. On December 19th I take the car to the Dealer again in order to replace the battery hold-down and check on the noise again. The hold down was replaced and I was told that the timing belt tensioner was the cause of the problem, not the transmission as I claimed then the parts was ordered by Eddie Accardi.

g. I had to contact Eddie Accardi on January 17th because no news were received regarding to the timing belt tensioner that was supposed to be ordered. I was told that the part was there but nobody contacted me.

h. On January 18th I leave the car in order to replace the part. I was contacted in the afternoon and was told that the car was ready. At the moment that I go to pick up the car no papers were ready, nobody could find even the key. After 30 minutes the papers and keys were found but the invoice did not mention anything about a change of any part. Asking why the administrative person confirms that nothing was done to the car but test it (?). After complaining about the lack of respect of my time another service manager helps me to find out with the mechanic that the problem was that the part was in but the service order did not say anything about replacing any part, then I had to go the next day again.

i. On January 19th I leave the car again and request to confirm that everything was fixed before somebody contacts me. I was called in the afternoon in order to pick up the car. When I pick it up I was told that the part was replaced.

j. Next day I realize that the ticking noise is still there. I contact the dealer again and was told to leave the car for a couple of days until it is fixed. I agree with that but asked for a couple of days before it happens because I had to schedule my activities without the car.

k. On February 8th I leave the car at the dealer.

l. On February 9th I have no news about the car.

m. On February 10th I was called by the dealer and was told that two pistons of the engine need to be replaced (?) and the car has to be left in the dealer for at least a week after the parts arrive. I asked how a car with 16000 miles with services performed every 3000 miles can have a problem like this and the answer is that this thing happens.

 

At this point I have to say that based in the fact that I expressed my concerns about the problems with the car since several months ago and that the delay in the resolution or diagnostic was not my fault I need that SUBARU explains me how can I trust in this car again even if the problem is fixed this time.

[Suzam]

Wow that bites.

 

 

The lack of professionalism from the service department really breaks you confidence in a dealer. Makes you wonder just how much work they are actually doing vs. what they tell you they do.

 

Didn't they offer you a loaner?

 

I would also try to contact the general manager and offer him a copy of your letter to SOA.

[The Dude]

What are the "lemon" laws in Florida? If your description is accurate, it sounds like you have a bad car and an even worse dealer. I'd be looking to bail on the whole situation. My other suggestion would be to involve Subaru of America to the greatest extent possible. See if you can get the SOA area manager involved in this mess. There is a HUGE overcapacity worldwide in car manufacturing, and the Chinese haven't even entered the US market. Perhap Subaru's greatest vulnerablity is the extremely inconsistent quality of their dealerships. SOA is very aware of this problem. I would not hesitate to go directly to SOA for a resolution to your problems. MY MOTTO: FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE SUBARU I CURRENTLY OWN. Take care of me, and you have customer for life. Screw me, and I'm buying my next car from one of the twenty other car companies that are BEGGING me for my business.

[Olnick]

MY MOTTO: FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE SUBARU I CURRENTLY OWN.

 

That's a great motto, Dude. I like it.

 

Mr. Mancini, contact SOA and tell them you want to talk to the area rep. You're obviously not going to get any satisfaction from the dealer.

[mikem]

Sorry to read of your woes with the dealer. The problems with the Baja are probably not that complicated to analyze and fix if a competent dealer gets involved. Unfortunately you seem to have a dealer that has greater problems that you are currently experiecing and they are not in a position to help you.

You are on the right track by keeping a record of events and continuing to give the dealer a chance to solve the problem.

I have been down this road with Subaru of America and can relate to the very great sense of frustration you are experiencing.

It is very important that you adhere to the "Dispute Resolution Procedure" in the manuals that came with your new Baja. Somewhere in one of the manuals there is a section that tells you exactly what steps to follow in order that you protect your rights in this situation with Subaru of America. You will also need to get a copy of the Fla. Consumer "Lemon Law" from the Consumer Affairs web site. It will tell you what Subaru of America must do in the state of Florida in this situation. You must send a copy of your complaint to SOA and open a case file with them. Send it registered mail and then call to get the case number of your file. Get the name of the district rep and speak to him/her directly and fax to them your complaint letter.

You are more likely to have the dealer rep solve a simple mechanical problem than an incompetent or uncaring dealer. It is very difficult to get SOA to settle a "lemon law" case because basically the burden of proof in on you and they can be very frustrating to deal with since it is not them that is suffering the loss of service from your automoblile woes. However, in order to be fair to SOA, it is a very complicated process that requires much paperwork and attention to detail in order that both parties are treated fairly.

Good luck.

[omancini]

Thanks a lot for your support. I have already opened a case with SOA on Friday and hope to have an answer about what to do with the vehicle today afternoon. The problem is that given the condition of the engine (according to the dealer) it is not safe to dirve the car because things can be even worse with the actual problem. Unfortunatelly the FL Lemmon Law gives you up to 18 months since the car was delivered in order to send a registered letter to SOA in this case and now the car is in the month #20.

 

Regards.

[mikem]

I am not sure of Fl law but the date the problem started is the date you need to be concerned with in regards to the eighteen months. If you purchased the car in May of 2004 and the ticking occurred in Oct of 2005 then you are within the 18 months. If you called the dealer about it at that time and have a record of it or there was a written record made at the dealer when you first mentioned the problem then are in a better position.

Another important aspect of the process is the number of days the car is " out of service". That includes days when the car was not able to perform as designed. If you parked the car because it would not run properly or you were not able to get the full benefit of the car because of degraded performance then it is "out of service". Now that the dealer says it is "unsafe to drive" make damn sure you do not drive it. If you do drive it after they make that statement then you loose a lot of your bargaining power because you are now disagreeing with the dealer's statement that it is unsafe to drive. Acutally they gave you a big gift by stating it was unsafe. Now the time it sits counts towards the required total days out of service. Very inconvenient for you to lose your car til this gets settled but they may let you have a loaner since they have made the statement your car is not "safe" in their opinion and you have been trying to get them to fix it for a while. The district rep may be more helpful with the loaner than the dealer, his budget for customer relations is bigger.

Wow, glad all this type of adventure is behind me. Hang in there buddy.

[omancini]

I got today from SOA (after some argumentation on my part) that they are going to send a representative to FL on FEB 23rd in order to verify or confirm the problem that I am having with the vehicle. I has been very insistent in the fact that if two pistons have to be replaced in this car (with 16K miles and serrviced every 3K....) I won't trust it anymore because I do not know when the next problem is going to catch me and because once the engine has been opened you never know what else you expect. They asked me which should be a good resolution and I suggested that as a minimum, if the engine has to be opened instead of waste time on that replace the whole engine.

 

So far I have no other option than wait untill next week. The car was released to me because according to SOA the Service Manager from the dealer stated that "he feels confident that the car can be used untill the moment that parts arrive". I stated to the SOA's representative that if the problem really are the pistons We are going to make things worse if I drive the car but no other option was given at that time. Now I have the car with me and will use it normally and will start other actions on my own.

 

My question is... Am I wrong stating that a 16K miles engine is hard to trust after a problem like this?

 

Best regards.

[idosubaru]

the engine could run okay after replacing pistons and rings, but there is risk involved and you don't by a new car to "take chances", that's what used cars are fo. you are certainly right to demand a new engine. too much money and expectation of quality and reliability at stake to open it up and replace it. if you wanted a car that needed work, money and time put into it you could have bought one of those. you paid for quality, service and warranty and it's about time they stood up to that. i've seen other posts on this board where members have had their engines replaced. might want to see what kind of problems they had to get to that point.

 

i'd hate to see the engine experience severe damage to the point it is certainly ruined and they have to replace the engine....before the pistons arrived. i think that's what would happen to mine if i had to drive it while waiting for the pistons to arrive, i just know my "luck". it would probably happen on a backroad, by myself with noone around.

 

bottom line, i've seen others have engines replaced, i'd look to have it replaced as well.

[cookie]

sounds like the car has cold piston slap and Subaru is going to fit the piston kit. If a competant mechanic does it the car should be fine. Actually the car will probably run 200,000 miles if you don't fit the kit.

[seattlelegacy]

I haven't ever contacted SOA, mostly becuase I have never bought a new sube (but no own 3). I have however written a letter to Saturn. When I was in college, I bought a brand new saturn that made funny little backfiring noises and required new fuel injectors at 1200 miles (twelve hundred). I contacted Saturn because even after replacing the injectors, there was still a funny noise. Not only did I recieve a handwritten apology and a card from the GUY AT THE DEALERSHIP THAT SOLD IT TO ME, but I also recieved a call from someone in Spring Hill TN apologising and promising reconciliation. Then the dealership manager sent me a letter apologising, and it was eventually resolved. My point in telling you this is simple... I will always reccomend Saturn to anyone. That kind of service is rare, and it blew me away. I just don't particularly like saturns now that I have found subaru:rolleyes: . Like someone else said, car companies seem to be begging for customers, and I don't see Subaru getting off their rump roast and trying to compete in terms of customer service and building relationships with customers. I have been to the Subaru dealership (never again) and I have to say, it would be tough for me to buy a new one... Unless they re-released the EA81 wagons, then it would be a no brainer!!!!

 

 

Jordan

[idosubaru]

I will always reccomend Saturn to anyone.

i don't know anything about new cars because i don't buy them but i don't know that everyone's experience with saturn is as good as yours was. or if every dealer/regional rep would be as responsive. i've seen people on here get their engines replaced and have good response/service but he's not getting the same treatment. experiences aren't necessarily nationwide. i'm impressed at the letters and contact as well, that's craziness.

[mikem]

Good to hear SOA is giving you some encouraging information and paying attention to you and "their" problem. I think, from my experience, that the rep is going to help you solve the problem. The dealer is also probably very happy to have someone else solve the mechanical problem and will cooperate with the area rep. I think the minimum is a new engine. Your experience with the dealer is probably some indication of their ability to fix the mechanical problem. Not the people I would want going inside an engine. And then deal with them again if it isn't done right.

I must commend SOA for trying to keep customes happy. I put an awful amount of effort into getting them to pay attention to and solve "their" problem with "their" product. I probably would not go to that effort again in order to be a SOA customer, or any other brand of car.

Keep pressing on them. You are your best advocate.

[omancini]

Hi!, I hope that the visit of this SOA rep will at least clarify if there is a problem with the car or the diagnostic (I hope is the diagnostic).

 

I will be very happy to let you know what happened at the end.

 

Thanks a lot for the support and all the experiences that you share with me.

 

Regards.