Chef Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I have noticed recently an intermittent squealling on some cold starts that has been becoming more frequent and louder. I figured it was a belt, but upon inspecting them they all appeared fine. There is a sticker on my belt cover indicating they've all been replaced less than two years ago. I've also noticed my crank pulley seems a tad wobbly - not much, but it caught my eye recently. I've also noticed that under hard acceleration (WOT or close to) my steering stiffens a LOT - pretty much locks. I thought these to all be separate problems. But then I read this thread: http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=775&highlight=noise+crank+pulley and I'm fearing that my pulley is about to kablooey. What are your thoughts here everyone? I am probably going to replace it regardless. Never done this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Inspect it. You may have to pull a few things off to get room to grab it and twist to see if it is breaking apart. If it's not check the torque on it. Most pulleys wobble a bit as they are rarely totally true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I have noticed recently an intermittent squealling on some cold starts that has been becoming more frequent and louder. [...] I've also noticed that under hard acceleration (WOT or close to) my steering stiffens a LOT - pretty much locks. [...] What are your thoughts here everyone? Don't get paranoid about this. Cookie's right, inspect things. If the crank pulley is okay, just tighten the belts a bit if they're slipping when cold. Don't forget that the steering power assist is variable with respect to engine RPM, so what you're experiencing with that may be normal. EDIT: You could put a mark on the mounting bolt and another near the edge of the pulley, aligned with each other. After a few engine starts and trips, see if the two marks are still aligned. If so, it's unlikely that the pieces are parting company, and certainly not enough to explain the steering concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 I'll give her a look over today some time. The pulley itself is looking pretty rusty and the rubber worn, wouldn't be surprised if it's starting to separate a little. I could try the welding of a steel strip across it to see if that helps. But I suspect subaru made it the way they did for a reason. I should mention that yesterday I qiuckly investigated under the hood while this noise was occurring, and it seemed to come from the pulley. Hard to tell, and it was deafening with my ear right there, but I'm pretty sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I'll give her a look over today some time. The pulley itself is looking pretty rusty and the rubber worn, wouldn't be surprised if it's starting to separate a little. I could try the welding of a steel strip across it to see if that helps. But I suspect subaru made it the way they did for a reason.Although Subaru apparently doesn't use the crank pulley as a harmonic balancer (some other manufacturers do), it still needs to function as a torsional damper and to help isolate belt-driven accessory noise. Making it a solid unit would eventually cause grief . I should mention that yesterday I qiuckly investigated under the hood while this noise was occurring, and it seemed to come from the pulley. Hard to tell, and it was deafening with my ear right there, but I'm pretty sure.I didn't realize the noise was so loud. Based on that, dealing with it soon would probably be prudent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPX Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 This is what I found on my pulley after I pulled it off during my longblock swap. I noticed it was a little wobbly. Big clue - it shredded an alternator belt. The key notch "grew" into a slot! It looked so clean that I though that was how it was supposed to look. Then I compared it to a new pulley..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Ack! That's ugly looking! I tightened my belt tensions today, especially the one driving the AC. Seemed fairly loosened, although not ridiculously. I'll monitor things to see if the noise returns. Does anyone know where this legendary plastic cap over a hole in the auto trans bellhousing is? Supposedly it's opposite of the starter on the passenger side and can be used to jam the flywheel, but I looked high and low today and couldn't find it. I ask because I was going to try and tighten my crank pulley. Maybe the belts were just loose enough that with the slight wobble on the crank it squealed pretty bad at the crank pulley itself. Sure was loud, but that's because I nearly had my ear to it. I called the dealer this morning - apparently the only difference in crank pulleys is whether it is an auto or standard tran. They had the same number for 2.2s and 2.5s. They also wanted $230 cdn for a new one - key was a cuple of bucks. I tried calling a bunch of wreckers, and either no one had subarus or wouldn't sell the crank pulley separate from an engine. I'm telling you, financing a slightly used Ford Focus wagon is sounding better and better each day.:-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Maybe tightening your belts fixed your problem, if not the pullys and idlers inside your timing belt covers will also squeal when they are going bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 doubt you need to tighten your crank pulley. if it's loose it'll come all the way off in no time. crank pulley is either on tight or will spin off in a matter of seconds when driving . no in between really. but the bellhousing access hole is under the intake hose. look right where the engine and transmission housing meet on top and you'll see the rubber plug. sometimes the rubber plug is missing and you'll see just the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 There's a "trick" I use to see if squeals are due to loose/glazed/slipping drive belts. I fill a spray bottle with water, and give the suspected belt a good "spritz". The water temporarily changes the friction, and the noise will either go away for a short while, or at least change significantly in nature if it was the belt causing the problem. If not, I look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Chef, Your symptoms sound hauntingly familiar to when the powersteering pump crapped the bed in my 94 wagon. It would make a squeal on startup here or there so I figured it was getting time for a new belt that weekend. Before I could go get the belt The Wife called with news that the car made the squealing noise steadily for a couple minutes and when she got where she was going it made a big old puddle of "blood" under the nose. I hopped in the trusty Civic to go check it out and found that the PS pump was emptying itself of fluid quite efficiently. Just a possibility anyway... hopefully you've just got a crappy belt or something though :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Chef,Your symptoms sound hauntingly familiar to when the powersteering pump crapped the bed in my 94 wagon. It would make a squeal on startup here or there so I figured it was getting time for a new belt that weekend. Before I could go get the belt The Wife called with news that the car made the squealing noise steadily for a couple minutes and when she got where she was going it made a big old puddle of "blood" under the nose. I hopped in the trusty Civic to go check it out and found that the PS pump was emptying itself of fluid quite efficiently. Just a possibility anyway... hopefully you've just got a crappy belt or something though :-p I have noticed my power steering pump makes a "slurping" sounds, like air and fluid are mixing. It's not too loud, but when I put my ear to it it's quite distinct. Not sure if this is normal or not. But, considering my problems with my steering at WOT, maybe this is true. A guy I work with went through 3 power steering pumps on his 90 turbo legacy. Says the car kept busting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Although Subaru apparently doesn't use the crank pulley as a harmonic balancer All EJ motors use the crank pulley as a harmonic balancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operose Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 the previous owner of my legacy forgot to tighten down the bolt that holds the crank pulley on... so it was loose enough that when I went to change the timing belt the bolt came out with my fingers rather than a socket... the keyway in the pulley is buggered like the one in this thread... the key was more or less welded to the crank, but was in a teardrop shape.. it came out of the keyway in the crank with some pliers... but the keyway in the crank is the same teardrop shape now............. I put some threadlock on it, torqued her down to about 160-180ft-lbs (over recommended torque.. to say the least) and forgot about it. hasn't come loose yet. I dread the day I have to change a timing belt.. and take that damn pulley off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Great information all, thanks everyone. So far no repeats of the squealing. Hopefully this remains the case, but not holding my breath for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beezer Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 If you need to, look at Legacy777 pictures at https://www.mail.experiencetherave.c...s/DCP2488.JPG the little black thing should be in one of the pictures. Oh crap that link isn't working for me...........sorry. I know Legacy777 does have some pictures though, it is of his injector work. Hope it works out for you. Beezer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 All EJ motors use the crank pulley as a harmonic balancer.Interesting :-\ ; I based my comment on what I thought was a reliable source. According to Subaru, "The pulley on the front of the crankshaft does not serve as a harmonic balancer." See: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/AllSubaruInfo.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 Interesting :-\ ; I based my comment on what I thought was a reliable source. According to Subaru, "The pulley on the front of the crankshaft does not serve as a harmonic balancer." See: According to Josh it does serve to dampen vibration - as why they used rubber in it. But perhaps it has a limited use for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 According to Josh it does serve to dampen vibration - as why they used rubber in it. But perhaps it has a limited use for this. Not to make too fine a point of it, but I seem to have said that previously; to quote myself (from back a few posts in this thread): "Although Subaru apparently doesn't use the crank pulley as a harmonic balancer (some other manufacturers do), it still needs to function as a torsional damper and to help isolate belt-driven accessory noise." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Our pulley failed on our 98 GT and ate the front plastic engine cover. The pulley moved back, made some noise and soon oil started leaking out. It was a true mess. But yes the pulley can and does fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 Not to make too fine a point of it, but I seem to have said that previously; to quote myself (from back a few posts in this thread):"Although Subaru apparently doesn't use the crank pulley as a harmonic balancer (some other manufacturers do), it still needs to function as a torsional damper and to help isolate belt-driven accessory noise." I didn't doubt you, no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Our pulley failed on our 98 GT and ate the front plastic engine cover. The pulley moved back, made some noise and soon oil started leaking out. It was a true mess. But yes the pulley can and does fail. Agreed; when the crank pulley rubber deteriorates, it can cause several problems. Damage to the front main seal due to excessive vibration (eventually causing an oil leak), is one possibility. Misalignment of the crank and PS/AC/alternator pulleys can even damage bearings and seals in the accessories. Slipping of drive belts is, of course, a possible symptom of failing rubber; that's why it's important to inspect the crank pulley before just tightening belts. Nevertheless, belts do wear/stretch/glaze a bit over time, and as long as the pulley has been cleared of blame, tightening the belts a bit may be all that's needed. As in most things, some judgement is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Interesting :-\ ; I based my comment on what I thought was a reliable source. According to Subaru, "The pulley on the front of the crankshaft does not serve as a harmonic balancer." See: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/AllSubaruInfo.pdf Read carefully, that only applies to the 1.8 OHC and 1.8 OHV engines, which are the EA82 and EA81. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Read carefully, that only applies to the 1.8 OHC and 1.8 OHV engines, which are the EA82 and EA81.It's been my understanding that the design of Subaru 4-cylinder horizontally-opposed engines is such that no harmonics requiring external balancing are generated within the normal operating range of these engines. This is due to factors like the rather short, stiff crankshaft, with cranks 180 degrees apart leading to mainly second-order harmonics (unlike V-type engines that have first-order harmonics and almost always require a balancer). This is not to suggest that these engines don't have significant torsional vibrations, which is a separate issue, and something that the rubber-isolated crank pulley is supposed to help deal with. Harmonic balancers differ in that they are "tuned" to work at a specific frequency that otherwise the crankshaft could excessively resonate at. Since what I said above is based partially on my reading of Subaru literature, if anyone has tech info to the contrary, please point me to a link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 Well, it's been about a week and with the tightening of the belts the squeal is gone. Hopefully not to return. Here's a thought though. If the pulley is beginning to wobble, for whatever reason, could this be partially responsible for an increase in vibrations through the car, particularily when in drive and stopped with a foot on the brake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.