My turn for the electrical gremlins, Updated

[TomRhere]

For the last week or so, my charge indicator has been hanging out in the 8-10 volt area right after starting the engine. It will rise to just over the 12 volt mark after a few minutes, but that's about as far as it will climb. OK, alt swap time I figured, so I swapped a used one on last night. No change. Ok, no clue as to how old battery really is, so I swapped the new one out of the Xt-6, same deal no change.

 

Was getting dark, and colder out, so I called it quits for the evening. Tossed another spare alt and some tools in the '86 BRAT, and came in for supper. Hopefully, things behave themselves until I can work on it again tonight after work.

 

Going to pick up some new battery cables for it, and start checking things out if those don't help. Old cables don't look the best, especially where the cable attaches to the battery clamp, could be the problem.... But I'll be sure to check the grounds out, and maybe add a couple more. I know how these cars love more grounds on them.

 

Don't need to have the BRAT dying on me on the trip to/from work. I changed jobs, and now do a 34 mile one-way trip. That would be a long cold walk, or rather large tow bill.... I don't need either..

[Skip]

Howdy Tom,

While checking cables ect.

Dheck the

connection to the fusible link where the alt output

wire connects.

The underside of the box where

the spade terminal crimp is.

.

I also commute about 50 miles one way

I know where you be comin' from

 

Might try a "real" voltmeter also just to double check

the dash unit.

Good luck.

[TROGDOR!]

Extra ground never hurts. Experienced an identical problem in the RX when I got it, a big fat wire from the bellhousing to the strut tower solved everything.

[GeneralDisorder]

Tom - we need to chat and figure this problem out. I'm not sure what the deal is, but I've had the same problem with my 85 Brat ever since I bought it. It's not the alt, and not the battery. Not the cables either. When I start it in the morning, it will hover right at 11 or 12. After driving a bit, it will come up to around 14 where it should be. I've spent cumulative probably 40 hours on this problem - I've fixed a number of things I thought it *might* be, but thus far to no avail. I suspect a ground wire somewhere under the dash.

 

A little background, and what I've found so far: The alternator is a "remote sensing" internal regulated type (I'm using a GM, but it matters not, as the wiring is the same for the Hitachi). One wire from the two prong plug leads to directly to the "power distrubution point" - in our cars the fusible link box by the battery. The alternator will regulate voltage at that point, and NOT at the back of the alternator. Thus if something is drawing say 1.5 volts, the voltage at the links will remain at 14.5, and the voltage at the back of the alt will be higher to compensate. The tests I've performed show my voltage to be fine to the links - so the remote sensor and the alt are working as they should. To explain it another way, the voltage at the links is 14.5 even though the guage in the dash reads 11. This would seem to indicate a problem within the circuit that feeds the guage. The guage indicates "accesory" voltage, which means it's tied into the same circuit that feeds things like the headlights, blower motor, and wipers. Thus when you turn on some accesories, you can watch the guage indicate the change. The problem is when the engine is started in the morning, even with all accesories off, I read about 12 volts, maybe 12.5 at the guage, when I should see a full 14.5. Later after warm up, it will read correctly - perhaps 15 to 30 minutes later.

 

The difficulty in finding the offending ground or circuit is that the wiring under the dash is difficult to navigate, and the diagrams in the FSM show you nothing as to grounding locations, etc.

 

GD

[TomRhere]

Well, plan was to bring my DMM home and do some checking.

 

Ha!!!!

 

Come quittting time, I heads to the time-clock, only realizing that I forgot to put my street glasses back on, (still wearing the safety glasses). Trip back to the work area and swap glasses, head to time clock.

 

OK, now I remember that I don't have my work sheet for the day, back to the work area to grab it. Of course, I leave my thermos sitting where I sat it while retrieving work sheet, so another trip to the work area.

 

OK, punch out and head to BRAT, and head on down the road.

 

Ummmm, for got something didn't I? Yep, DMM is sitting on top of toolbox, waiting patiently for me to grab hold of it. Well, when I realize this, I'm more than halfway home. Auuuugggggg!!

 

Oh well, tomorrow is another day. Besides, there's a cold drizzly rain falling. Yeah, I have a 2 car garage, but it be full. Couldn't even get the bumper of the BRAT in there, if I tried. So all work done is outside of the garage, not today.

 

Skip, GD, thanks for the in-put.... I'll be sure to let you and the rest of the Board know what I come up with. I have had issues in the past on other BRATs with the fusable link box, and it's connections. So that's on my check it list.

 

Gauge did appear to be indicating higher on the way home though. Still, it's only in about the 12-13, maybe 13.5 range, and not where I know it has been in the past. Could just be the gauge, but I want to be sure.

 

Steve, I do plan on adding a couple heavy gauge grounds also. Can't hurt anything to do so.

[TomRhere]

Ok, remembered the DMM today, so I did some quick checks on things.

 

Engine idling, nothing on but the clock, I'm reading 14 volts at the battery, and off the alt. Gauge is showing just above the 12 volt mark, and I do mean just.

 

Turn the heater blower on high, headlights on Brights, fog lights on. Gauge is reading 8 volts, and I have 13 volts on both the alt & battery. Turning the fog lights on, pulls the idle speed down quite a bit. Tach reads normal idle at 1100 rpms or so. Really don't sound like it's that high, but I'm sorta used to V-8's. With the fogs on, idle drops to around 700 rpms.

 

Shut off all the accessories, take another reading, still showing 14 volts on the DMM. Shut off the engine, and read the battery, I have 13 volts.

 

The DMM I have doesn't read voltage in the .00 range, just the 00.. Think I got took when I bought it, the Salesman told me it did DC voltage fully, I haven't seen it do so.

 

Anyways, looks like I have a faulty gauge, or the wiring to it. I have another '86 BRAT dash unit, maybe I'll swap it in over the weekend and see if I get a better reading from the dash gauge. I'll also throw a few extra ground wires on, just to see if it'll help any.

 

Somewhat relieved that I know the alt is charging now, just wish I could rely on the gauge though. Atleast I can run down the road with my brights on now. Don't need to be thwacking no Deer!!!!!!!!!!!

[GeneralDisorder]

Thing is - it's not the guage.

 

Test the leads to it at the plugs on the back of the cluster before you replace it.

 

GD

[Skip]

Tom,

I have had problems with a couple of my

Brats at the pink connector that feeds the big

juice to the entire ignition switched systems.

 

This pink connector can be found under the st. col

Mine looked burned from the ourside.

 

I have simply spliced a 10 AWG wire around the connector.

[nicky nighteyes]

dont know if anyone mentioned it yet, but when you start the car does the little red light on the in-dash volts guage come on for a sec?

 

if not your excite circuit could be borked, and the alt will not charge properly.

[TomRhere]

Ya know, I hadn't paid much attention to that Red light in the gauge until you posted on it. Thanks for bringing that little tid-bit up...

 

Both times I started the BRAT yesterday, the light was on for a brief moment after releasing the key. So I'm thinking I'm good there.

 

Plan for today is to pull the extra '86 dash down out of the rafters, along with all related wiring, and do a careful disection of the wiring harness, just to see how the dash unit is wired into the system. Maybe I'll find a problem area, maybe not. But atleast I'll know what connector(s) are involved, and where they're located in the BRAT. That way, I can atleast check them out in the one I'm driving.

 

Who knows what the previous owner(s) did with the wiring. I'm fairly sure that Jim (86subaru) didn't mess with it, but what about the guy he bought it from???? The fog lights were added, and there seems to be some other "extra" wiring bits here and there. Time to dive in, and see what's what.

 

I'll post back with findings.....

[GeneralDisorder]

All the plugs for the cluster are immediately behind it... if you need it, I have diagrams for all that stuff from my '84 fsm.

 

The ignition plug that Skip mentioned is a good one to check - most I've seen are burned - some idiot cut and spliced my "big" juice into an aftermarket alarm system wireing harness. It was sloppy - didn't even use a 3M tap. I had to rip all that out, and repair the harness. I soldered it to be sure of a good connection. The wires to the ign. switch would actually get HOT because it was so borked.

 

GD

[TomRhere]

To forking cold out!!! -1 actuall temp, wind-chill in the -teens... This will have to wait until tomorrow at the earliest.

 

Yep, I'm a wimp!!!!!!!

[Cougar]

Since you have 14 volts at the battery it means the alternator is doing its' job of charging the battery though it would be nice to have about 8 tenths more voltage. One thing to be aware of with the dash gauge is there are normal wire loses to gauge and most gauges normally read about 1 volt lower than the actual battery voltage. There may be excessive loss at the connection point that Skip mentioned. That connection is a common failure point.

 

If you have a digital volt meter that has autoranging be sure it isn't holding in a higher scale than it should be. You should be able to see at least one digit past the decimal point when taking a reading.

[TomRhere]

Just a bit more info, nothing really major though.

 

Haven't had time to dive into it, but things seem to be okay. Did find out yesterday, (nice warm 60*+ out), that if I'm not running the heater fan, the gauge will sit right up by the 14 volt mark. If I turn fan on, it will drop down towards the 10 volt mark, regardless of what speed the fan is on. This is going by the dash unit by the way.

 

So, I started playing with all the various knobs and switches after I got home, just to see what happens on the gauge. Headlights on, drops a tiny bit, just noticable. Hit the brights, maybe drops a tiny bit more, but not much. Okay, lights off, hit the wipers, no noticable change, even on hi. Hmmmm.

 

Hit the fog lights, gauge drops, along with idle speed. Not sure of wattage/amp draw of these lights, but they're bright ones, real bright.

 

Ok, everything off, gauge reading near 14 again. Hit the heater fan on low, gauge drops to maybe 11-12 volts. 2nd & 3rd speed no noticable drop. Hi speed however puts it back down near the 10 volt mark. Hmmm....

 

Ok, fan on 2nd speed, (where I normally have it), headlights on low beams, gauge sits right around the 12 volt mark. Brights will pull it down about the width of the needle, to maybe the 10 volt mark.

 

Driving home tonight, I didn't run the heater fan, just cracked open the slider and had the heat controls set to heat. No lights, wipers, or anything else on, gauge stayed near the 14 mark, the whole drive. Forgot to look at gauge anytime I had to use the brakes, so can't comment on any changes there caused by the brake lights.

 

So, my guess is some funky connections in the wiring harness, be they power, or be they grounds. Time to start checking things out. Actually, it's time I spent time working on my stuff rather then working on everyone elses stuff. To much time spent on other stuff than my own..... It's gotta stop for a bit.........

[Skip]

Tom take a minute literaly

and look under the steering column.

 

The connector is pink

EZ 2 C

 

If it's fried you'll know it

 

Good luck

[TomRhere]

That connector, and the fusable link box are on the top of the check list. I've slated Saturday as the "Fix the BRAT" day. Has a few other issues I need to get repaired also. 'Preciate the info though.

[TomRhere]

Okay, 6 weeks later and I finally have time to do things about this issue. Actually, I had no choice in the matter, seeing as I tried to start the BRAT using the XT6 key and locked-up the key switch. DOH!!!

 

The key switch is stuck in the "on" postion. I did manage to get the XT key out and can put the right key in, but it won't turn, Period...

 

Anyways, in trying to rig something up, I pulled the connectors apart that feed the Ignition switch itself. Seems there was some heat being made there as I could see signs of melting. Not much dis-coloring of the White feed wire though. Used one of my spare switches so I could start the engine using a screwdriver. Not!!! Starter just wants to click now, barely moves the engine.

 

Okay.... Cut the connector off the switch and the car side of the harness, and splice the ends together. Same thing as above. Starting to get a little annoyed. Start checking wiring system over, and find the middle Fuse-link had gotten hot at one time or another. Still whole, but covering was burnt. Replaced it with a good one, and tried starter again. No worky.

 

Been starting engine by jumping the starter terminals. Got home from work today and wired in a relay to run starter solenoid. It starts from the switch now. I followed the diagram that Skip posted up on here, but I got the battery power feed right at the starter instead of running a wire back to the battery itself, same with the ground wire for the relay coil, just put it to nearest ground wire connection point.

 

Seems that the Pink connector for the ignition, along with the one bad fuselink was most of my initial problem. Alt gauge will hold right at the line between the 8 and 18 volt marks, which I'm calling good. Gauge will still drop to 8, then climb back up slowly when I turn on the heater blower, thinking maybe I'll look into swapping in another blower motor.

 

So,,, the score is;

1 repaired issue with the alt gauge, and

1 FUBARed ignition lock switch

[Cougar]

Make sure your battery voltage is above 12 volts while you do a test. If that is okay then it sounds like there is a bad connection in the smaller accessories power wire from the battery. There may be a bad fusible link connection also so check to make sure there is very little voltage drop across the links when there is a load on line. I doubt you blower is bad. To prove it you can connect it directly to the battery using some jumper wires.