bawalker Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Hello all, I took my mom's car into the dealership this morning after noticing the emergency brake light was staying on in the dash panel as well as brake fluid levels being dangerous low. Upon the service rep at the dealership having a technician look it over, they discovered that the Nippon A.B.S. brake unit was failing in the vehicle. It was leaking brake fluid at a slow rate causing it to mist back over the wheel well area and it has already started to eat away at the paint there. The service rep (a computer customer of mine) was very concerned because the Nippon A.B.S. unit costs $1400 for them to purchase and he didn't want to do that and highly urged me to possibly find another one out of a `95 Legacy L subaru if at all possible to cut down on the $2100 quote price. $1400 was for the ABS unit, $250 was for the labor, and the remaining $450 was for boot/coupler/housing? units for along the wheels/axles. The service rep also said they would have to bleed the brake lines and use a special machine to suction out all the air and fluids after installing this new ABS unit and before putting in new fluids. These are all first time replacements for these items because they just have worn out. The car is nearly 11 years old with 285,000 miles. MY QUESTION is does anyone know besides local salvage yards where I could possibly get a Nippon A.B.S. unit for `95 Subaru Legacy L wagons? The service rep highly suggested I check out alternative sources for this item so my mom isn't stuck with a $1400 part cost. I will be checking local salvage yards but I'm curious if anyone on here knows where there could be one of these even online at a highly reduced cost. Right now, this is a tough point for her and hearing news of a potential $2100 repair bill nearly brought her to tears because of such a little paycheck she does make and having to pay this out. That's why if I can find an alternative solution such as a used ABS unit, then by all means I will and can for her. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I have one or two from cars I've parted. $75+shipping. Please send the Part # on the unit so I can make sure its a match. I'm out of town until next week, but I could ship it Fedex Tue. Any good mechanic can swap the units and bleed the brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 [...]Upon the service rep at the dealership having a technician look it over, they discovered that the Nippon A.B.S. brake unit was failing in the vehicle. [...]The service rep (a computer customer of mine) was very concerned because the Nippon A.B.S. unit costs $1400 for them to purchase and he didn't want to do that and highly urged me to possibly find another one out of a `95 Legacy L subaru if at all possible to cut down on the $2100 quote price. $1400 was for the ABS unit, $250 was for the labor, and the remaining $450 was for boot/coupler/housing? units for along the wheels/axles. The service rep also said they would have to bleed the brake lines and use a special machine to suction out all the air and fluids after installing this new ABS unit and before putting in new fluids. These are all first time replacements for these items because they just have worn out. The car is nearly 11 years old with 285,000 miles. MY QUESTION is does anyone know besides local salvage yards where I could possibly get a Nippon A.B.S. unit for `95 Subaru Legacy L wagons? The service rep highly suggested I check out alternative sources for this item so my mom isn't stuck with a $1400 part cost. I will be checking local salvage yards but I'm curious if anyone on here knows where there could be one of these even online at a highly reduced cost. I believe that the '95 Legacy uses the ABS-2E system. From your description, the main part you need seems to be the "hydraulic control unit", or otherwise called the "modulator valve" assembly. From what I've seen, with the ABS-2E the hydraulic and electronic units aren't integrated, and can be purchased separately. Online sources (I'll let others make recommendations) appear to sell each for a bit over $700, so the $1400 price would appear to include the electronic control module (in addition to the hydraulic unit), which by your explanation wouldn't seem to be needed. A used ABS hydraulic unit may be worth considering, but could present some pitfalls; be careful. You also may be able to obtain the other needed hydraulic parts for less than the $450 quote, although I'm basing that on a "gut" reaction, since I don't know precisely what's required. The service rep's description sounds like detail being told in order to justify the large expense. Yes, the brakes will have to be bled carefully after the parts are replaced, and the procedure should involve putting the ABS system through cycling in order to help purge any trapped air, etc., but it isn't rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Where are the part numbers located on these items? I'm definately not a mechanic (computer engineer actually) but with a bit of direction I can figure it out. All the dealer service rep told me was to find a "Nippon" brand from a `95 or similiar series Legacy and it would work. If you can provide me a location where to look for those part numbers, I can have those posted tomorrow morning on here. Thanks!! I have one or two from cars I've parted. $75+shipping. Please send the Part # on the unit so I can make sure its a match. I'm out of town until next week, but I could ship it Fedex Tue. Any good mechanic can swap the units and bleed the brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 The ABS unit is in the engine compartment, passenger side all the way forward. There is a tag on it with (3 sets of numbers). You will see all the brake lines going to the unit. A picture would help as well. Lmdew@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 i'm not ABS expert as mine hasn't posed and problems yet, but pretty sure you should be able to replace the part and do basic brake bleeding. agree that all that explanation was more jargon than anything. replace and bleed. someone offered the part for $75, install and bleed and this job should be less than $300 from an honest person in my oppinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 These should help in identifying which ABS system the Legacy has: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/IdentifyInfo.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/ABS.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Thank you very very much for that information. I went outside a few minutes ago to have a look under the hood and found the Nippon ABS unit located directly behind the passenger side head light. I knew I was in the right place because there was dampness/wetness all around that area from where the unit is leaking brake fluid. The main resevouir for the brake fluid is down half since driving home 30 miles from the dealership yesterday. I bought Dot-3 brake fluid to carry in the car just to be safe. Included are pictures I took of the unit and surrounding area. The guy at the dealership said it was just that Nippon unit that needed to be replaced. http://www.modemnet.net/subaru (for pictures). I have both zoomed in large pictures and average size pictures. Also here are the following numbers & identifying information listed on the Nippon ABS unit: 26731AA200 110 000 30460 47008718 Nippon ABS, Ltd. A These should help in identifying which ABS system the Legacy has:http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/IdentifyInfo.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/ABS.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green96GT Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I had the SAME problem on my 96 Legacy. Lmdew sent me an ABS unit, very clean. I am a very novice mechanic and I was able to swap out the old one and bleed all the brakes with a vacuum pump, by myself, in about 2 hrs . The best 2 hrs I ever spent!!!!! I would urge you to try doing it yourself - it's easy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green96GT Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Included are pictures I took of the unit and surrounding area. The guy at the dealership said it was just that Nippon unit that needed to be replaced. http://www.modemnet.net/subaru (for pictures). I have both zoomed in large pictures and average size pictures. Yup, that's the same style that's in my '96. The other style looks MUCH different. The tubes come out the sides, if I remember correctly. Looks like yours is leaking a lot more than mine ever did. As to the bleeding, someone on the board suggested doing a full bleed, then go out and do some hard braking on sand/snow to activate the ABS, then bleed again to get all the air out of the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 What was the process you used to bleed the brake lines? The way the service rep talked at the dealer, they had to have 'extraordinary tools and a special machine' to accomplish this. I'm a novice at mechanics, but my background in computer engineering has allowed me to learn things really fast and understand what is going on. I had the SAME problem on my 96 Legacy. Lmdew sent me an ABS unit, very clean. I am a very novice mechanic and I was able to swap out the old one and bleed all the brakes with a vacuum pump, by myself, in about 2 hrs . The best 2 hrs I ever spent!!!!! I would urge you to try doing it yourself - it's easy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 It is leaking quite bad. The dealership service garage filled the brake fluid up, but after driving 30 miles home, it's down to half already. Yup, that's the same style that's in my '96. The other style looks MUCH different. The tubes come out the sides, if I remember correctly. Looks like yours is leaking a lot more than mine ever did. As to the bleeding, someone on the board suggested doing a full bleed, then go out and do some hard braking on sand/snow to activate the ABS, then bleed again to get all the air out of the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 can you post a picture of where it's leaking and someone may be able to help you. sometimes leaks are very simple fixes....a fitting, connection or o-ring and you're done in 30 minutes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Based on what the service rep said yesterday, it's an o-ring leak on the bottom side of the unit. After I called the service rep earlier, he said that the Nippon replacement parts need to come as a unit, the ABS hydrualic unit AND the electrical unit as well. Where can I find the part numbers for the electrical unit as well?? Brad can you post a picture of where it's leaking and someone may be able to help you. sometimes leaks are very simple fixes....a fitting, connection or o-ring and you're done in 30 minutes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 i wouldn't be surprised if replacing an o-ring and snugging up the fitting would sovle the leak. 50 cents for an oring and bleed the system and you're golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Thank you very very much for that information. You're welcome. As to bleeding, in addition to the info in the link I previously provided (which describes among other things getting the ABS to sequence), here's more: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/BrakeSystemWin01.pdf Unless you have more than a wrench, fluid, a hose and a jar, this is a 2-person operation that requires coordination and communication between the people doing it. However, as I said before, it's not rocket science. Try not to introduce any more air into the system than you have to while working. Keep the ABS hydraulic unit as full of fluid as possible. Bleed all 4 wheels, in the proper order. Then either actuate the ABS sequence control (preferable), or has been suggested before, get the ABS to actuate by hard braking on a loose surface (away from other cars, please). Then rebleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 After I called the service rep earlier, he said that the Nippon replacement parts need to come as a unit, the ABS hydrualic unit AND the electrical unit as well. Where can I find the part numbers for the electrical unit as well??I don't understand why, if the part number for the replacement hydraulic unit matches the original, there is a need to replace the electronic control. I could only see the necessity for that if the new (or a used) replacement was not a match for the old, and had different control requirements. That, of course, may indeed be the case. Seems if lmdew can provide a part-number-matching unit, you're probably set. Of course, if an o-ring and bleeding is a cure, then that makes sense. Do what seems prudent. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green96GT Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 You're welcome. As to bleeding, in addition to the info in the link I previously provided (which describes among other things getting the ABS to sequence), here's more:http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/BrakeSystemWin01.pdf Unless you have more than a wrench, fluid, a hose and a jar, this is a 2-person operation that requires coordination and communication between the people doing it. However, as I said before, it's not rocket science. Try not to introduce any more air into the system than you have to while working. Keep the ABS hydraulic unit as full of fluid as possible. Bleed all 4 wheels, in the proper order. Then either actuate the ABS sequence control (preferable), or has been suggested before, get the ABS to actuate by hard braking on a loose surface (away from other cars, please). Then rebleed. I did my bleed solo with a $29 mini vacuum pump called a "MityVac" or something like that - I bought it at Advanced Auto. Makes the bleed REALLY simple. Like falling off a log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 You are possibly right, however I don't have a way to verify that to be sure. I do trust the service rep to a fair degree because he is also a customer of my computer business. He did say it was more than just a standard leak and that this is only the second ABS unit in a Subaru to have problems warranting a replacement of the ABS unit. Unfortunately I am in a hard time crunch to spend a day to take it apart and troubleshoot on my own. I REALLY wish I could tho, but I don't have the tools to do that and I'm scheduled to leave for Michigan (driving my 01 outback up) on Sunday and my mom needs her car to be working so she can get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lustreking Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Then either actuate the ABS sequence control (preferable) I'll be replacing the HCU in my wife's '95 Legacy wagon with a used unit this week... if it ever stops raining... How does one actuate the ABS sequence control? Thanks! -Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I'll be replacing the HCU in my wife's '95 Legacy wagon with a used unit this week... if it ever stops raining... How does one actuate the ABS sequence control? Use the first of the following two links to identify the ABS system, and the second one to help verify the identification. http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/IdentifyInfo.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/ABS.pdf Assuming that the '95 Legacy has ABS-2E, page 14 of the second link tells how to actuate the sequence control, among other useful ABS info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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