montana105 Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Hey everyone-just got back from a short highway trip-300 miles and for the last 60 miles my 93 Legacy wagon e22 started what felt like missing and I can now hear a spitting sound such as an exhaust leak.The car has 180,000 miles,and is getting new timing belt next Tuesday,but would like to know if anyone has an idea what may be causing this.FYI- while pulling a hill the car got real sluggish,and noticed it was blowing smoke out the back.The car does burn some oil but this didn't have the bluish tint.When I got home I pulled the plugs and # 1 was fouled,but what really amazes me was that the spark plug cavity was full of oil.Any ideas? I appreciate it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Hey everyone-just got back from a short highway trip-300 miles and for the last 60 miles my 93 Legacy wagon e22 started what felt like missing and I can now hear a spitting sound such as an exhaust leak.The car has 180,000 miles,and is getting new timing belt next Tuesday,but would like to know if anyone has an idea what may be causing this.FYI- while pulling a hill the car got real sluggish,and noticed it was blowing smoke out the back.The car does burn some oil but this didn't have the bluish tint.When I got home I pulled the plugs and # 1 was fouled,but what really amazes me was that the spark plug cavity was full of oil.Any ideas? I appreciate it. John Worn lower oil rings. Letting oil into the cylinders, particularly under heavy load. Like climbing a hill. I am sorry to say, but you may need the upper end rebuilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 Well I ended up not getting the timing belt done yet as I just haven't had time but today with some time I pulled the plugs again and this checked spark on each and # 4 isn't firing yet the plug isn't fouled either or wet. Should I try replacing the coil pack? Any other thoughts? By the way # 1 is not full of oil as before but it also hasn't been driven only started. Thanks-John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Possible scenario: Burning oil and 180k miles might mean worn rings. Worn rings might allow more than average blowby. Blowby pressurizes the crankcase, especially if the PCV valve/system is clogged. That causes oil to be pushed out of various places, including past valve cover gaskets. So if the oil on plug #1 is on its outside (not the firing end), I'd verify that the PCV system isn't clogged. A "spitting" sound accompanied by misfire could be due to afterburn of fuel in the exhaust system. How did you check spark on #4? See if these help: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/IgnitionCoil.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/DirectIgnition.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/IgnitionCoilSum04.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 I just did it the old fashion way.Took plug out and then put plug next to ground metal with spark wire hooked up,turned over engine and checked for spark,did this on 1,2,and 4,never got over to 3 to check it,guess I should according to the links you provided about waste spark. Don't have a reliable volt/ohm meter,so any other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Depends on how you define "reliable". Even if you can make relative comparisons of 1&2 versus 3&4 resistance, for example, that might provide some insight. But certainly see if there's good spark at #4. By the way, if you're not already doing so, disconnecting the cylinder's fuel injector when a plug is out or not firing during ignition troubleshooting is probably a good idea. That helps minimize raw fuel washing oil off the cylinder wall, diluting the oil, and away from sensors and catalysts down the exhaust path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 Okay,well by the last response I errored by not cutting the fuel supply as I checked spark,but I now realize maybe an important piece of the puzzle. On all the other cylinders while cranking it over and actually starting it all of the cylinders except # 4 spit out gas and i got the strong smell of gas. By reliable ohm'volt meter I mean that everytime I use the one I have(Craftsman) it blows the little fuse inside the unit,and this isn't due to operator error. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Okay,well by the last response I errored by not cutting the fuel supply as I checked spark,but I now realize maybe an important piece of the puzzle. On all the other cylinders while cranking it over and actually starting it all of the cylinders except # 4 spit out gas and i got the strong smell of gas.By reliable ohm'volt meter I mean that everytime I use the one I have(Craftsman) it blows the little fuse inside the unit,and this isn't due to operator error. John Hmmm, an interesting, fortuitous discovery; so you have neither spark nor fuel on #4? If it was just one or the other, I'd probably say either "coil/igniter" or "injector", but with both out I'm thinking something in common. That could suggest a possible camshaft angle sensor (or reluctor) problem, or even the ECU. Of course, a "reliable" meter would be quite useful at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 Kind of my thinking also in regards to a reliable meter,the car definitely runs like it is missing one cylinder. My experience leans towards V8 Fords and know the feeling of having a dead cylinder,it runs rough at idle and under load but get it above 2000 rpm and it feels normal almost. I can get a used engine with only 51000 miles on the clock for 550.00 dollars to my door,wonder if this might be the route to go due to the increased oil burning.Love the car though especially up here in N.W. Montana during the winters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 Okay-well I followed the links provided by OB99W and here's what I've got Terminals 1 & 2 produced a reading of 21.0 ohms as did 3 & 4. I get no reading when testing the terminals in the harness connector and no reading between any primary terminals and the coil case. Hmmmm.....Now what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Terminals 1 & 2 produced a reading of 21.0 ohms as did 3 & 4. I get no reading when testing the terminals in the harness connector and no reading between any primary terminals and the coil case. Hmmmm.....Now whatResistance on the secondary side from 1-to-2 and 3-to-4 should be about 21 k ohms; can I assume that's what you found? Primary resistance from terminals 1-to-2 and 2-to-3 of the harness attached to the coil should each be about 0.7 ohms; I'd suggest retesting that. It would be correct to get no reading (or at least a very high one) from any of the primary terminals to the case. By the way, I noticed that there are errors in the "DirectIgnition.pdf" info. In the "Ignition Coil Testing" section, the terminal numbers listed are reversed between the primary and secondary; however, the diagram is labeled correctly. The correct numbering relative to expected resistance is in "IgnitionCoil.pdf"; you can use the diagram from "DirectIgnition.pdf" to identify the terminal numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 Okay-well this saga just keeps getting worse. Last night I had a few minutes and was messing around and started the car up,it ran like crud as usual at idle,but it also wouldn't hardly rev up and would barely get itself into the garage.When it's cranking it sounds like the starter is disengaging itself,like no compression in a cylinder,and it won't start unless I hold the accelerator down about 1/2 way,and I did hear it pop in the exhaust system. I'm lost. The ohm readings were 21k on each coil terminal. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 Well,no responses so i went out and started the car again,it actually started fairly well but it's a bit warmer.It blew oil smoke for about 5 minutes(getting worse) and then the smell I got from the exhaust smells like welding. Is my engine history? It's not burning any antifreeze in the last 3000 miles that i've been watching it,but going through about a quart of oil every 500 highway miles before the incident as explained in post 1. What are my options? Thanks-John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Not that it's the most important thing right now, but did you ever check for clogged PCV valve/hose/etc. ? Wild hypothesis: Significant oil getting past rings may have partially plugged the catalytic converter. That can cause back-pressure, leading eventually to misfire. Raw fuel from sufficient misfire can cause the catalyst to overheat, possibly resulting in meltdown and further plugging. You originally mentioned that you were going to change the timing belt. Any chance it's worn enough to have jumped a tooth or so? John, do you own a vacuum gauge and know how to interpret readings? If so, it can tell you a lot about what's going on with your engine and exhaust. However (and please don't take this the wrong way), it may just be time for this problem to be seen by a professional mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 I appreciate the response and the honesty. The PCV was changed about 4 months ago with a Subaru original,when I do get the car running I can take the PCV hose off and feel plenty of suction through the valve. I'm not sure on the timing belt jumping, and didn't have it changed because the car has been burning so much oil since this all came about. I do not have a vacuum gauge,so I can't diagnose that spectrum. I do have a compression gauge so maybe I'll check compression and throw those figures at you. I'm leaning towards buying a hopefully low mileage used engine and putting it in and then maybe taking this one apart to learn about Subaru engines. Does 675.00 for approx 90,000 miles sound decent? Put a new timing belt,water pump,idlers,the whole shebang,should be good for awhile, actually wonder if the car is worth putting another 1000.00 into it? Well I'm rambling- I'm just honestly thinking that the engine is shot,it fills the neighborhood with smoke for the first ten minutes,and then it just trickles out. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks-John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Excuse my dropping in... If I were you, I would'nt put any more money on such an old and worn engine. AT 675$ for a 90K engine, I would jump on that deal, if.. 1) I had confidence that this is true mileage, and 2) if the rest of the car had at least five more years in it (no serious rust, etc.) Just my opinion. Just opening up the old engine and fixing it would probably at least cost the same thing and you would still have a close to 200K engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I agree with frag 100%. But I think $675 sounds like a lot--unless the engine is in excellent condition or has been competently refurbished, and is documented. Good luck whichever way you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 Hey everyone-well I took the big step and dropped my 327 Chevy into the basket case,what a PINTA. actually just kidding.The engine I was looking to buy got bought before I could get there so am searching again for another. Anybody with something around 500.00 in the N.W.? Thanks-John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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