thebruce50 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I have a problem with a 1993 legacy 2.2lt wagon. The #2 idaler on the timming belt came appart while driving and was rubbing against the pressure release valve on the oil pump. due to the situation i was forced to continue driving for about ten minutes. I replaced the idaler andput a knew timming belt on. I allighned the #1 cylander to TDC and lined up the mark on the crank sprocket put both cam sprockets to 12 oclock. The problem is that i can not get the car to start again. I am a little lost I checked the spark and compression on all cylanders and it is good. One strange thing is that the #1 cylander is sparking three times on a cingle rotation of the crank and i dont know if this is correct or not. The other problem is that none of the three times is right befor TDC on #1. To me this means it is out of time but i have redone the timming several times thinking i have made a mistake, but i think the timing is corect as far as the the crank timming. I am at a loss this subaru has 190,000 pluss miles but was running very well up untill this probblem. I would appriciate any help from some one who has experianced a simmilar problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 You didn't align things correctly. You do not align the crank to TDC when doing the timing belt. You align the marks on the cam sprockets with the cam covers and the mark on the rear tooth of the crank gear to the mark on the oil pump. These should help http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt1.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt2.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt3.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt4.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt5.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt6.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt7.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt8.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodChip Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I screwed up my timing belt the last time I did it as well. I aligned both of the cams to TDC...when i forced it to start it sounded and felt like the engine was going to jump out of the car......one cam needed to be at TDC and the other 180 degrees opposite.....BDC (bottom dead center). Follow your other amigo's links and that should solve your prob. good luck. There was also some other stuff with the fly wheel to set up the timing, I remember taking off the starter and holding the correct setting with a screw driver.........I think. Just follow his links.... I have a problem with a 1993 legacy 2.2lt wagon. The #2 idaler on the timming belt came appart while driving and was rubbing against the pressure release valve on the oil pump. due to the situation i was forced to continue driving for about ten minutes. I replaced the idaler andput a knew timming belt on. I allighned the #1 cylander to TDC and lined up the mark on the crank sprocket put both cam sprockets to 12 oclock. The problem is that i can not get the car to start again. I am a little lost I checked the spark and compression on all cylanders and it is good. One strange thing is that the #1 cylander is sparking three times on a cingle rotation of the crank and i dont know if this is correct or not. The other problem is that none of the three times is right befor TDC on #1. To me this means it is out of time but i have redone the timming several times thinking i have made a mistake, but i think the timing is corect as far as the the crank timming. I am at a loss this subaru has 190,000 pluss miles but was running very well up untill this probblem. I would appriciate any help from some one who has experianced a simmilar problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I have a problem with a 1993 legacy 2.2lt wagon. The #2 idaler on the timming belt came appart while driving and was rubbing against the pressure release valve on the oil pump. due to the situation i was forced to continue driving for about ten minutes. I replaced the idaler andput a knew timming belt on. I allighned the #1 cylander to TDC and lined up the mark on the crank sprocket put both cam sprockets to 12 oclock. The problem is that i can not get the car to start again. I am a little lost I checked the spark and compression on all cylanders and it is good. One strange thing is that the #1 cylander is sparking three times on a cingle rotation of the crank and i dont know if this is correct or not. The other problem is that none of the three times is right befor TDC on #1. To me this means it is out of time but i have redone the timming several times thinking i have made a mistake, but i think the timing is corect as far as the the crank timming. I am at a loss this subaru has 190,000 pluss miles but was running very well up untill this probblem. I would appriciate any help from some one who has experianced a simmilar problem. your off by at least one tooth on the timing belt. The spark system is a waste spark system. the two cylinders connected to the one coil fire both at the same time. What your seeing is the timing that is off is causing too many fires of the coil. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebruce50 Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 so the mark on the front of the crank sprocket is that is a triangle is not the mark uesed to line up the timming. I did not see a mark on the back of the sprocket. is it on one of the six tines that triggers the crank sensor? You didn't align things correctly. You do not align the crank to TDC when doing the timing belt. You align the marks on the cam sprockets with the cam covers and the mark on the rear tooth of the crank gear to the mark on the oil pump. These should help http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt1.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt2.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt3.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt4.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt5.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt6.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt7.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt8.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Yeah, you don't use the arrow on the front of the crank gear. The notch you use is in the rear. These pics might help http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru/images/timingbelt/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a97obw Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 nipper said: "your off by at least one tooth on the timing belt. The spark system is a waste spark system. the two cylinders connected to the one coil fire both at the same time. What your seeing is the timing that is off is causing too many fires of the coil." Nipper, let me ask you this. I just finished the timing belt replacement on my 97 OBW 2.5; it runs like a Rolex at idle, pulls strong accelerating, yet has a very annoying mild "shake" at between 800-1200 RPM. At idle around 800 RPM a timing light hooked to the #1 plug wire indicates timing right at about 14 degrees. I do have a small leak on the back of the power steering pump that I'm going to address in the next few days. It isn't either of the reservoir O rings---been there, done that for the both of them. I suspect the slightly retarded timing may be due to the power steering issue. But where is the power steering sensor located? And the puzzler I've searched to resolve......at idle the #1 and #3 (passengers side of the engine) fire at least twice as fast as the #2 and #4 side when the timing light is hooked to them. This whole "waste spark" design I understand, but whats up with that? (hopefully we'll get some good info for the original thread---didn't mean to hijack.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarian Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Woodchip, I think you're talking about an EA82 motor. On an EJ22, the timing marks will both be up, not exactly TDC but pointing to the marks on the timing cover. The mark on the rear of the crank sprocket is on one of the tabs that activate the crank angle sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 nipper said: "your off by at least one tooth on the timing belt. The spark system is a waste spark system. the two cylinders connected to the one coil fire both at the same time. What your seeing is the timing that is off is causing too many fires of the coil." Nipper, let me ask you this. I just finished the timing belt replacement on my 97 OBW 2.5; it runs like a Rolex at idle, pulls strong accelerating, yet has a very annoying mild "shake" at between 800-1200 RPM. At idle around 800 RPM a timing light hooked to the #1 plug wire indicates timing right at about 14 degrees. I do have a small leak on the back of the power steering pump that I'm going to address in the next few days. It isn't either of the reservoir O rings---been there, done that for the both of them. I suspect the slightly retarded timing may be due to the power steering issue. But where is the power steering sensor located? And the puzzler I've searched to resolve......at idle the #1 and #3 (passengers side of the engine) fire at least twice as fast as the #2 and #4 side when the timing light is hooked to them. This whole "waste spark" design I understand, but whats up with that? (hopefully we'll get some good info for the original thread---didn't mean to hijack.) To contribute to the hijack............Your power steering leak is coming from the pump housing gasket or the front seal. A seal kit for the power steering pump is only ~$20, has everything you need to reseal the pump. Timing spec for yours is 17 deg @ 700 RPM. Power steering leak is not going to affect your timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebruce50 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 so the mark on the front of the crank sprocket is that is a triangle is not the mark uesed to line up the timming. I did not see a mark on the back of the sprocket. is it on one of the six tines that triggers the crank sensor? Thank you very much for your help. My suby is running like a champ now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyWagon92 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) I am having a similar problem with a 92 that won't start. I bought it broke down as a project for my girl in WV (good for hills in winter) and I need to find out what is the next step for troubleshooting. I have spark visible in all four plugs (new sparks and wires.) I have good compression all four the same (120.) The fuel pump has good flow. The timing belt marks are all lined up now (to the dash onthe crank cogwheel not the arrow.) I have not checked the injectors but using ether I should get some fire but I get nothing. Is it time to start repalcing electronic components in order of price until it runs like some mechanics would or is there anything easier or simpler? I thought for sure I'd get some fire with the ether starting fluid sprayed into the throttle body. I think that the spark timing is off and it will be difficult for me to find the culprit. Edited June 21, 2009 by LegacyWagon92 error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 It takes 3 things to make an engine run. Air (compression), fuel, and spark. If is doesn't fire with an atificial fuel sorce, then you are wrong about the compression and/or spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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