Subaru must have been nuts!!!

[MilesFox]

so no one cares about millage or engine longevity

 

which is improved by following the manual. less load on rods and bearings, more ifficiant with combustion and breathing.

 

cruising or shifting below 1500 rpms is murder on the engine.

 

I routinely find that i get better economy at 75 mph vs 65 mph, because the rpm it cruises in is more efficent power.

[subynut]

which is improved by following the manual. less load on rods and bearings, more ifficiant with combustion and breathing.

 

cruising or shifting below 1500 rpms is murder on the engine.

 

I routinely find that i get better economy at 75 mph vs 65 mph, because the rpm it cruises in is more efficent power.

 

Ok, does that mean the close ratio 5 speed in the turbo EA2s should get better mileage?

 

And, if that is true, why does the PandaWagon get 34 MPG at 55 mph, 28 MPG at 75 mph, 25 MPG at 80 mph, and 20 MPG at 90 mph? (EJ25, FT4WD turbo 5 speed, 205-55R16 tires)

[Subruise]

Ok, does that mean the close ratio 5 speed in the turbo EA2s should get better mileage?

 

And, if that is true, why does the PandaWagon get 34 MPG at 55 mph, 28 MPG at 75 mph, 25 MPG at 80 mph, and 20 MPG at 90 mph? (EJ25, FT4WD turbo 5 speed, 205-55R16 tires)

 

your panda wagon has a ej25 not a ea82 so the "efficiency band" if you wanna call it that, is going to be different even tho you have the same chassis/body. as far as the turbo tranny getting better mpgs..... i dunno

 

 

RV

[subynut]

your panda wagon has a ej25 not a ea82 so the "efficiency band" if you wanna call it that, is going to be different even tho you have the same chassis/body. as far as the turbo tranny getting better mpgs..... i dunno

 

RV

 

True, but, you still run the engine in the same RPM range, no? I found the EA82 in my first car (carbed then SPFI'd), was happiest between 3000-4000 RPMs. Which, from what I have read, is in the area between peak torque and peak HP. Which happens to be roughly where the EJ series' power band is, just more torque. As I have noticed with the EJ25D - it likes to cruise at about 4000 RPMs.

I thought for best fuel economy, you want to keep the RPMS near peak torque, not peek HP. Or are my eyes in backwards?

I do agree, though, that the EJ series are far more efficient than the EA series. Kinda makes you wonder what a fresh EJ18 in a 2WD XT would get as far as highway mileage goes.

[Subruise]

even if two completely different motors are happy at the same rpms, their respective characteristics in regards to mpg/hp/torque are not really compatible. or at least not as far as i can tell. the discrepancies compound when you start having multiple motors in one platform (ie stock gl vs ej swap)

 

 

however, your idea on peak torque creating better mpg than peak hp i believe to be accurate.

 

happy vets day, RV

[MilesFox]

Ok, does that mean the close ratio 5 speed in the turbo EA2s should get better mileage?

 

And, if that is true, why does the PandaWagon get 34 MPG at 55 mph, 28 MPG at 75 mph, 25 MPG at 80 mph, and 20 MPG at 90 mph? (EJ25, FT4WD turbo 5 speed, 205-55R16 tires)

 

Motor twice as big, 3.70 gears compounded by large tires. maybe you would get better mileage at 75mph in 4th gear instead.

 

edit:

I could see great economy with the larger wheels at slower speeds, but a more increased exponential loss of economy towards higher speeds.

 

Also, if using the standard fuel economy measure of dividing the fill up by the odometer, how much is the odometer off, thus affecting the overall economy. I suppose someone should break out the tire size calculator and measure up against 185/70-13

 

There are a lot of variables, but the soob is a oversquare big-bore short-throw design, favoring higher rpms

Edited November 12, 2011 by MilesFox

[rain_man_rich]

This thread kicks so much rump roast. When I bought my daughter her loyale she complained that it shifted hard out of first gear (4eat). I got in it and drove it like I do and it shifted fine, right about 4500. LOL. I said "see? you just gotta drive it". The look on her face was priceless.

[bonvo]

hmmm i have a 78 wagon with a ea71 1.6 i know you have to rev a low displacement engine to get any power out of it but ive been babying it and shifting at about 3 k to try for better gas mileage maybe i need to rev it more for better gas mileage according to my calculations im already getting 27mpg but the more the better time to read my owners manual and experiment though when you take into consideration how short the stroke on the 1.6 is it kinda makes sense

[Uberoo]

1st gear 5300

2nd gear 5000

3rd gear 4800

4th gear 4600

 

thats where I shift mine.. With the lift and big tires I have no power if I shift at any lower RPMS. If I'm in deep mud, add 1000 RPMS to all the shift speeds.. LOL

 

got 310k miles out of the first one, just passed 200k miles on the second engine. Never had a prob with high rpm shifts.

 

 

A weber or SPFI is a great thing on EA81s.With the old hitatchi the engine would redline at 6000 rpm.With a weber it would go as long as you dared.Back when I had a weber I always got a bit skeered at 8K and let off.SPFI only lets it wind out to 7500,booo.But it turns out when you keep an old 250K mile motor at 7500 pinned through the mud after a while bad things happen.like a cam breaking.One wheeling trip the car wouldn't maintain even 6000 rpm through a mud hole,next mud hole it was floored and only going 4000.By the time that mud hole was over it would only do 2500 floored.Tried to limp it to camp the engine stalled about 1/2 mile from the road.never to start again.

 

all old engines eventually die.Now I have an EJ22 with 135K sitting under the hood.it will be interesting having power..

[kybishop]

My 86 GL wagon EA82 has just over 150,000. When I got it several years back it was ticking. I read on here how much they love to rev so I took her up to 4,000 and above regularly. She loves it.

 

The ticking went away and she purrs like she is thoroughly enjoying the high revs.

 

KB

Edited November 12, 2011 by kybishop

[subynut]

Motor twice as big, 3.70 gears compounded by large tires. maybe you would get better mileage at 75mph in 4th gear instead.

Personally, I think the 3.7 ratio'd EA trannies are not that great a tranny. The shift points are wrong for a N/A monster such as my EJ25. But, that's what I had when I put the car together. I'd really like the part-time 4WD ratios with AWD, but I need a few parts to do that.

 

I could run in 4th on the freeway, but it's hard enough holding a consistent speed in 5th, let alone 4th. While cruising at 75, my vacuum gauge sits at about 12 inches and the air/fuel gauge (cheap sunpro) is doing it's normal bouncing dance between lean and the high side of ideal. If I cruise at 4000 rpms (about 87 corrected mph), it sits on the high side of ideal and just hangs out there. That's when my mileage takes it's dive. 4th gear at 75 mph will put me over that 4000 rpm point and I don't think my mileage will improve, but I'll give it a shot next time I'm on the interstate.

My mileage should become more consistent once I get the cruise control working. With all the extra available torque, it is very hard to hold a consistent speed. Especially the farther up the power band I go.

 

edit:

I could see great economy with the larger wheels at slower speeds, but a more increased exponential loss of economy towards higher speeds.

 

Also, if using the standard fuel economy measure of dividing the fill up by the odometer, how much is the odometer off, thus affecting the overall economy. I suppose someone should break out the tire size calculator and measure up against 185/70-13

 

Yes, number of miles over number of gallons. I'm about 7% off, my mileage numbers are the corrected numbers. I usually fill up, on average, at a quarter of a tank.

 

On the larger wheels idea, I was actually thinking the other way around. The taller tires would be a hindrance in town because of the taller final drive would keep the rpms lower in the power band too long plus the extra rotating mass of the larger wheels and tires. Whereas cruising out on the highway, you don't have the acceleration issue, but the taller tires will lower the rpms at a given speed and as long as the engine is in the power band, it should get best mileage. I kinda see it as the faster the engine has to turn, the more fuel the engine is drinking, the less mileage. However, if the rpms drop too low, the engine begins to lug and the more throttle is needed which makes the ECU richen up the mixure and the mileage goes to pot. From driving both EA and EJ powered cars, they both like to hang out in the 3000-4000 rpm range.

 

There are a lot of variables, but the soob is a oversquare big-bore short-throw design, favoring higher rpms

 

I understand that these engines are rev happy little boxers, but I don't see why we need to cruise with the engines outside the power band way up in the 4500+ rpm range. If the engine can maintain 75 mph at 3500 rpms, I don't see why it needs to be higher. Climb a hill? Sure, 4000-4500 rpms is best, isn't that why Subaru chose the ratios they did?

[man on the moon]

I'm pretty sure the tach in my Loyale has read low since the day I bought it. It says I idle under 1k and do 70 (in fifth) at about 2300 on a flat road. Around town I shift out of first and sort of coast in second or third at idle/light throttle, but getting on the freeway I've hit 4k a few times (with the probably miscalibrated tach), and hit 50 in third more than once. I haven't hooked up the speedo yet after my recent 5d/r swap, but now I'm motivated to put the speedo back in place and figure out how to calibrate the tach...curious. Especially if I can get that d*mn ticking to go away, too

 

This should be fun as long as it doesn't kill one or both of us (the car and I).

[zukiru]

True, but, you still run the engine in the same RPM range, no? I found the EA82 in my first car (carbed then SPFI'd), was happiest between 3000-4000 RPMs. Which, from what I have read, is in the area between peak torque and peak HP. Which happens to be roughly where the EJ series' power band is, just more torque. As I have noticed with the EJ25D - it likes to cruise at about 4000 RPMs.

I thought for best fuel economy, you want to keep the RPMS near peak torque, not peek HP. Or are my eyes in backwards?

I do agree, though, that the EJ series are far more efficient than the EA series. Kinda makes you wonder what a fresh EJ18 in a 2WD XT would get as far as highway mileage goes.

 

my XT DL has already gotten me 40 hwy MPG. cruising @ 55-60

 

My 86 GL wagon EA82 has just over 150,000. When I got it several years back it was ticking. I read on here how much they love to rev so I took her up to 4,000 and above regularly. She loves it.

 

The ticking went away and she purrs like she is thoroughly enjoying the high revs.

 

KB

 

Amen! a redline a day keeps the tick tock away.

Edited November 13, 2011 by zukiru

[subynut]

my XT DL has already gotten me 40 hwy MPG. cruising @ 55-60

If that's with a EA82, could a ODBII EJ18 reach the 50 mpg mark?

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I'm pretty sure the tach in my Loyale has read low since the day I bought it. It says I idle under 1k and do 70 (in fifth) at about 2300 on a flat road...

 

If your Subaru is Front wheel Drive only and 5 Speed Manual trans, Then your Readings are alright: They're intended to Stay Low from Factory, for Fuel economy.

 

Kind Regards.

[man on the moon]

If your Subaru is Front wheel Drive only and 5 Speed Manual trans, Then your Readings are alright: They're intended to Stay Low from Factory, for Fuel economy.

 

Kind Regards.

 

I'll rephrase my first statement, as I was understating how low my tach reads. I idle at 0 (zero, yes) if the tach is right, and I'm pretty sure that's not the true idle speed. It did this with both engines and both transmissions I've had in the car, so I think it's something with the gauge and not the sender.

 

I do have a five speed (was push-button, now is d/r), but it is four wheel drive afaik. I mean stock--I'm pretty sure the 4wd wasn't swapped in as an aftermarket thing. I suppose I could check the VIN to be sure.

[nickolai]

What an awesome thread! I never had a tach in my 88 DL so I'm not sure of the rpms, but I drove that car back and forth to school for 4 years over a 25 mile mountain pass. Cruising speed was 45-50mph in third gear, for a good solid 25 mins, then shut off the engine and coast down the other side at 60-70mph! I did this an average of five days a week and the car loved it! And Damm could that thing go though the snow! I could never figure out why my friends wanted to drive these expensive 2wd pieces when there are awesome subies to be had.

[zukiru]

If that's with a EA82, could a ODBII EJ18 reach the 50 mpg mark?

 

The xt dl and impreza base rate the same on the .gov site.

It says both get 29 hwy (they both get better) xt has that wicked aerodynamic advantage.

So yeah it might do better with the ej18. The skinny stock tires and high (50psi) air pressure helped I also coasted a fair shake and got drafts from big rigs etc.

[peewee]

85 Brat with 200k ... loves to be shifted at 4k :-p

[trucking45]

Well... My experience is that my Loyale 1985 EA82 weberized Really "Loves" the "Almost Redline" shiftin´.

 

Let me Explain: If I drive only between 2,500 and 3,000 I will have the "Tick of Death" music, due to low oil pump pressure that is due to low acceleration. So I only drive like this if I feel sick, depressed, or the streets are full of cars... (Jammed) ...Or at the Mall parkin´ lot...

 

But since new, my Loyale is always driven to shift between 2,900 to 3,500 RPM´s and it´s engine is very fine, even with over 250,000 original miles on it.

 

Also, more RPM´s guarantee more Oil Pressure, and More Oil Pressure will extend your engine´s life; let me explain it again:

 

If you travel long up hills, and your subie can take that in 4th, but at just about 2,100 RPM´s... You´ll see the Oil Pressure needle Too Low, it means more wear to the engine, due of two facts:

 

First, when you go up hill, your engine works more to pull all the weight up, and Second, there is when it needs more oil pressure to fight the increased internal wear that result of more work, and slow revs (Means Low Oil Pressure) + more work is = Shorter engine life due to fast wear.

 

So, if you drive it in 4th at almost 2,100 you´ll go at somethin´ between 60 or 70 KPH (Depend on Tire Sizes, etc... ) but if you shift Down to 3rd Gear, you´r engine will rev-up to almost 2,900 RPM´s to get the same speed, BUT you gain More Oil Pressure to Fight the Internal Wear... and the Gasoline consumption is just a li´l bit more... but it pays itself by longer engine life. Believe me: the other cars on my Family have good longevity drivin´ like this, like the Mercury Comet Caliente Coupe from 1969 (Dad has it since new) and the engine is still original, and so on goes the examples...

 

So, if you drive your engine "Fast" it not nesscesary means shorter engine life, I really think it could mean Longer Engine Life... I Always shift down to 3rd in up hills, (Even if my subie can handle it in 4th perfectly) and cruise at 80 KPH on it... engine above of the 3K range and it has been over 20 years of it... almost every weekend... Hours and Hours of Travels in our extremly mountany Honduras, and the Subie feels VERY good!

 

What do you Think ´bout it?

 

Also, I Love the "Feelin´" that the Sound of a Weberized EA82 fast accelerating can make at 5,000 rpm´s or above... People scares thinkin´ that the engine will blow away and blow my head by the way... and blow theirs too ... but it is Fine, is just a "Boxer" feelin´ You know...

 

i can believe this as theres a very steep hill near where i live it's about a halfa mile long and i take it at 60 in third and about half way up i have to shift to second doing about 5 to 6 thousand rpms the other half of it my engine seems to love revving out

[subynut]

Do you have any issues with your EA82s getting too hot running up there while climbing long grades? Here in the desert, the summer air temps can reach up to 110*. While climbing a hill at WOT at 5000 rpms in third gear, my old EA82s would get quite hot. I found that if I slowed down to 4000 rpms in third, the engine's rise in temp was slow enough that I usually would reach the top before it got too hot - I call 225* too hot for the EA82 after cooking the engine.

Whereas with the EJ25, I can climb that same hill in 5th at the speed limit and the cooling fans never turn on. But with 60 more hp, I better be able to hold the speed limit.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Your EA82 Radiator should was a Single row one, isn't it?

 

Two Row Radiators perform better on High Work.

 

Kind Regards.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo
mispelled word

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

...The ticking went away and she purrs like she is thoroughly enjoying the high revs...

 

That's due to the increased oil Pressure from the High RPM's ... but that won't cure the cause of the T.O.D. Sound, Just will hide its Symptoms.

 

Usually the tic of death Sound on EA82's are mainly caused by two reasons (but there are more) the "Mickey Mouse" Shaped seal on the Oil pump being worn and "Sucked" letting air bubbles on the Oil, also could be caused by a Worn Oil Pump.

 

Kind Regards.

[subynut]

Your EA82 Radiator should was a Single row one, isn't it?

 

Two Row Radiators perform better on High Work.

 

Kind Regards.

Yes, but I have yet to find one. I have checked with the five auto parts stores we have in town and they all have the same single row radiator listed for both the N/A and turbo'd cars. The reason: "It's more efficient, they work better than the OEM two row radiators."

Same goes for EA82 heater cores, can't get those either. They just don't exist in the aftermarket world.

[brumby420]

My ea81 has no exhaust and when you rev that to around 6 grand it wakes up the whole neighborhood. Not many things that sound better than a high revved boxer rumble.