Time for a new car...

[Chef]

Well, this may be it. I'm tired of dealing with the countless little problems showing up in my 92 legacy. In the last year I've replaced CV joints, all four struts (air to spring), balljoints, brake rotors and pads (both were nearly new when purchased, replaced due to shudder 3 months later), the starter, excess oil loss, transmission flush, etc.

 

Now it has an ongoing and difficult to pin-point swaying problem that may indicate the need for front struts, brakes again (rotors and pads, recurring problem), new CV joint again, has terrible idle and acceleration vibrations (although idle itself is smooth as butter and always at 750 rpm), extensive tire noise, an intermittent hard-start issue, rusting out on wheel wells, entire cat-back exhaust, etc. With almost 250 000 km on the odometer, I feel that spending another $1000 to take care of this (doing labour myself) is simply a real piss-off and not worth the trouble.

 

I really don't want to do this - I love this car. It has pep, it's great in snow, has tons of room, and looks awesome. I love the controls, all the power systems work great, sliding sunroof rules. The engine is running strong, i'll bet it has as much oopmh as when it was first made. The trans shifts fine, albeit slightly harsh, but has no slipping and I love the gear ratios.

 

Mostly it's just this damn swaying issue. Car feels fine one moment, and then the next it barely drives a straight line without needing correction. Seems to pull at the slightest crosswind, and bumps are a bit harsh. PLus they seem to randomly pull the car. I'd say the struts, but pushing on them yields no excessive bounce and two mechanics seems certain they are fine along with all other suspension components. Pushing at the top off the car to rock it side to side seems to make it roll excessively. The sway bars are fine.

 

I am at my wits end, and a fully loaded 2002 Suzuki Esteem or Ford Focus wagon seems like a bargain right now. I simply cannot afford a new subaru.

 

Thanks everyone!

[Bmm001]

Why not get a used Subie?

[otis]

no offense, but the problems you state don't seem that inconsistent with a car that over 10 y/o with 250 Mm (is that even a term?)

 

what do you think will happen with that focus or esteem down the road a little? it seems like you (and everyone else) is in a quandry of whether to buy an older car and pay for more repairs or buy a newer car, pay less for repairs, but more for depreciation. In some cases the lucky few get to buy an older car and not pay much for repairs or depreciation.

 

I'm not saying you should keep your old subie. for me, I look at a new or newer car and compare the depreciation costs to what I anticipate the repair and maintenance costs are going to be. Once the repair costs or hassle factor exceeds the new car depreciation less that intangible feeling of buying a new car, I go for the new(er) car. BTW for me that "intangible" feeling is quite high and my threshold for dealing with repair hassles is quite low so in the end I make "poor" financial decisions- but at least I feel good about it.

[DerFahrer]

That's minor stuff. I've had way more issues than that with my Legacy, and I still have it.

 

Don't fall into the "new-car-is-a-financially-wise-decision" trap. Don't spend $20,000 to get rid of $1500-$2000 worth of problems.

 

Occasional hard-starting? Could be a coolant temp sensor. Those are $30 new from the dealer and take 30 mins to replace.

 

Vibrations? Could just need motor/trans mounts.

 

250k km's is 155k miles. That's nothing, seriously. My Legacy has a good chance of hitting that by summer, and I fully expect it to hit 200k within the next 5 years (as long as I don't have an accident, knocking on wood desk )

 

If you love the car, as I do mine, stick with it. You'll be glad you did.

[1 Lucky Texan]

Maybe some steering rack bushings or something?

 

There does come a time when you're just ready for something else, but, as the others say, make sure it's really wise. A new car is only new till you drive it off the lot. Then it's a used car. Don't believe me? Try to use it as a trade in after 2 weeks. that depreciation is probably close to what it would take to fix your car! And payments! You'll be paying 2-3 hundred dollars a month for a car anyway. I bet you could fix all those problems you listed for less that 10-12 months worth of payments.

 

i dunno - I certainly have not made completely wise decisions on cars - what do I know.

 

meh

[cookie]

My advice is to get a low miles car a few years old with lower payments, lower insurance, less depreciation, and a good warranty. I did this on my BMW and it has been the most satisfying car experience I have had. I hate to pay the big penaly on buying one that is brand new, but this seems next to new with the programs they have now. On my BMW I got three years free maintenence and a 100,000 mile four year warranty too. The car had 7,000 miles on it which is new to me and still looks new four years later because I keep it up. Good luck Chef, we'll miss ya!

[The Dude]

Have you checked the ball joints? A possible cheap and easy repair for your handling problems.

[WoodsWagon]

Read the list of item's he's replaced at the top.

 

 

Have you checked the tie rod ends? Both inner and outer?

 

Beond that, bushings seem like the most likely cause. If you can, put it on a lift and use a prybar to try and shift everything around. When you find the suspect bushing, it should be cheap enough to replace.

 

Ever run the car without a cat back exhaust? They sound like a V8 at idle, and a crotch rocket at higher rpms. Killer man. People clear outa the way.

 

For the rust at the wheel wells... I have seen stickers used creatively. Sunoco stickers to be exact.

[montana105]

I'll add my 2 c's here real quick.Having worked for another dealership in the past you have to figure in the cost of wear items and diagnostics to determine

warranty issues which are typically much higher in the first few years.Believe me what you think is covered under warranty and what the manufacture thinks can be way off.It's not the dealers fault,they have to follow guidelines so they'll get paid also,but on a brand new car where parts may not be available it makes for very stressful times. Just thoughts from an old Chrysler mechanic working beside Sube mechanics,Subaru is alot more lenient and last

alot longer with more abuse. John

[Gnuman]

Ummm, over 300,000 Km on my 92 Legacy Wagon, two clutches, two sets of balljoints (both because I used aftermarket parts when I should have used OEM), a Radiator cap, and a thermostat later it is about as reliable as any car I have ever had, and a lot better than most new cars. rust on wheel wells is often caused by road salt, and the car should not be penalised for that. have you had the alignment checked?

[Chef]

Wow, thanks all for the tons of advice. I'd definitely miss this community as much as my subie! You guys are an inspiration, and I might try to keep my soob running yet!

 

This being said, I didn't end up buying a car I had in mind (2001 Esteem 5 spd 121 km full dealer records for $5000 cdn). I am going to have the CV axle replaced, and see what happens. If the noise persist (like knokcing on a coconut shell with your knuckle), I suspect the front diff is in trouble and will run not walk to a newer car. If it seems to remedy the noise and hopefully even some of the vibrations, I may play this out. I will need to get some exhaust work done (that still allows it to pass emissions), and will see what I can do about the handling.

 

As for the handling problem, which bushings should I be checking? Those on the end links are worn, but the sway bar seems very tight. The tie-rods have no-discernable play in any direction. I had a 4 wheel alingment recently - improved things slightly, but still off. Steering response is tight, but it's the car itself that reacts oddly. It almost seems to have a delayed response after the original one - for example, moving the wheel quickly out and in steers the wheels of the car quickly in those directions, but it's almost like the car above the wheels delays in the response, and over reacts. PLus it gets pushed around by gusting winds like a sail, and wheels redirected by certain road distortions. But hit a bump dead on and it doesn't cause a problem. Push down on the car, and there is no excessive bounce.

 

I have a possible theory about the suspension too. I swapped in rear springs from a 90 legacy, with new struts. Rear seems VERY harsh, bangs on bumps. Maybe normal though, high spring rate. The front though MAY be springs from an impreza (was under the impression springs were legacy, struts slightly used from an impreza). If this was the case, I wonder if the softer rate in the front throws off the ride, and induces the sway/rocking motion. On roads with slight ripples, the car almost seems to "waddle" at speed. If I progress with this I might grab another set of used strut assemblies from the wreckers and try them out. If the difference is apparent, I'll buy new struts for the front too.

 

Whew. Sorry about the length. But maybe we'll keep this baby on the road for a while yet! Hell, I've replaced enough parts that there's only so many that need replacing still

[WoodsWagon]

the front controll arms have bushings on the inner ends. The rear links have bushings at both ends. Check all of them.

 

Wrong springs could be the problem, but check the bushings first.

 

Stickers and great stuff or comparable expando-foam in a can for the rust.

 

I can't recall if it is an auto or a manual, but if it is an auto, possibly the flex plate that holds the torque converter to the engine could be cracked. That can make loud clunking noises while you drive the car. Differentials rarely break.

[1 Lucky Texan]

here's a long shot - do you have mixed tire types? say radilas and bias-ply?

 

I've ridden in a car like that - it felt like we were on top of a bowling ball! very weird.

[Chef]

the front controll arms have bushings on the inner ends. The rear links have bushings at both ends. Check all of them.

 

Wrong springs could be the problem, but check the bushings first.

 

Stickers and great stuff or comparable expando-foam in a can for the rust.

 

I can't recall if it is an auto or a manual, but if it is an auto, possibly the flex plate that holds the torque converter to the engine could be cracked. That can make loud clunking noises while you drive the car. Differentials rarely break.

 

Thanks, I will check these - and yes, it is an auto, although I hope it's not the flex plate, as that pretty much means removing the trans I believe.

 

here's a long shot - do you have mixed tire types? say radilas and bias-ply?

 

I've ridden in a car like that - it felt like we were on top of a bowling ball! very weird.

 

All four tires were brand-new when I bought it, and all the same type. I've rotated to keep wear even.

[nipper]

 

As for the handling problem, which bushings should I be checking? Those on the end links are worn, but the sway bar seems very tight.

 

i think you just answered your own question. check ALL bushings and replace any that are worn, and always replace them in pairs.

 

nipper

[Chef]

I guess when I say they are worn I mean they look aged, perhaps shrunken a bit - but having no new ones to compare them to I'm not really completely certain what to look for.

 

i think you just answered your own question. check ALL bushings and replace any that are worn, and always replace them in pairs.

 

nipper

[nipper]

I guess when I say they are worn I mean they look aged, perhaps shrunken a bit - but having no new ones to compare them to I'm not really completely certain what to look for.

 

This is one of the things that can cause sway.worn bushings can cause suspension parts to move more then designed. Then add in to the mix alot of cars (including subaru i do beleive) has some sort of passive steeing in the back of the car though wheel movement.add all this together you can get sway.

Since everything else checks out, i would inspect ALL bushings front and rear. Bushings are cheap enough to get a pair and replace any in question. Sometimes you cant get a true feeling for them untill you remove them. Some bushings have a steel sleeve inside them and can be a challange to get off.

 

nipper

[Chef]

Okay, so I inspected all the bushings I could. In the front, the bushings on the sway bar end links appear somewhat worn, and the bushings on the control arm wher it connects to the sub-frame appear somewhat worn. I can induce some lateral movement on these (i.e. in the direction of the bolt) but not much - maybe 1/8".

 

In the rear, the swar bar links are definitely a bit worn, and look shrunken. Other bushings appear aged but not terribly. The car is undercoated BTW, making some of these tough to see.

 

For kicks I swapped my front tires with one another. No change.

 

I suspect my handling issues come down to either a worn rack that does not leak but overassists, or something to do with the struts that appear fine when bouncing. Bushings may worsen things, but I'm sceptical of their contribution considering this problem began only after the replacement of my air strut system, and continues to worsen (or at least I notice it more than before). I spoke to a guy at a shop and he thought it might be due to a change in overall suspension geometry. The problem is intermittently worse, the other day at 100 km/h I thought that if I turnbed the wheel even an inch it would roll my whole car over. Other times it simply seems to be difficulty trakcing straight. SOmetimes the wheels pull over bumps. Sometimes they don't.

 

Looking at the wheels turn in accordance with the wheel, there is no play in any of the asssociated parts. When the car is shut off, there seems to be a clunking noise of sorts while turning around the rack. I figured it was due to the rack moving dry.

 

I think I'll swing by the junkyard tomorrow and pick up a couple of strut assemblies and try them out. If there is no change, I'll rule out struts, and try bushings. I suspect my problem though is the rack at this point, but really don't know how to tell.

[Chef]

Damn, the wrecker had no subies I could use. One 93 legacy sedan, but the right side was smashed in anyways. I'll check again next week.

 

Frankly I make a game out of guessing which way the car will turn first, left or right, holding the wheel loosely.:-\

[Ranger83]

Ummm, over 300,000 Km on my 92 Legacy Wagon, two clutches, two sets of balljoints (both because I used aftermarket parts when I should have used OEM), a Radiator cap, and a thermostat later it is about as reliable as any car I have ever had, and a lot better than most new cars. rust on wheel wells is often caused by road salt, and the car should not be penalised for that. have you had the alignment checked?

What he said.....

[Chef]

What he said.....

 

I believe I mentioned in my first post that I had a 4-wheel alignment about one month ago. It improved driveability (and straightened out the sterring wheel), but the problem is still here. Funny, things felt better after I first installed my new ball joints 2 months ago, when they were stiffer. Now that they've loosened, things are too light. Maybe it's only revealing the weakness of the other problematic component though.