LuvScooby Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Hi! I need help!! I have an 87 1/2 xt. It used to be a turbo, but now has a n/a engine. I don't know who did the swap, but it was probably 5 years ago or so. It changed hands a couple of times before I got it, and I don't think it has ever run since the engine swap. I can't get it started. I made sure the timing was correct, checked fusible links, installed a new fuel pump, verified voltage at injectors, and made sure I had spark. It will 'hit' with starting fluid, but even then, it barely hits, but never runs. When the green plug is plugged, I get a code of '1'. I don't know what that is. When only the black plug is plugged in, I get codes '14', '15', and '22'. My 88'FSM says what they are, but I'm not sure what to do at this point. If the car still has the turbo ecu in it, will it fire the n/a injectors? I never smell gas while trying to start the car...none. I suspect the injectors are not operating, but it would seem odd to have all 4 be bad. Is there a way I can tell if I have the turbo ecu still in the car? Or does that matter? Anyone near Nashville, TN., wanna maybe rescue me? haha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 your best bet would be to get another turbo engine back together for it and swap it in since in '87 1/2, the turbo XTs had a knock sensor, along with a few other things like boost controller and so on. There's a few guys in your neighborhood that might be able to help you out and some people oin here have done the swap from a turbo engine to a NA engine, just takes some time to do a search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TROGDOR! Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 The N/A engine will drop right in in place of the turbo, no modification required. As long as the engine came from an 87.5 or newer XT, you should be good to go. The easy way to tell is to look at the engine. The 87.5 and newer engine will have a big silver intake manifold with four fat tubes, and a big square in the middle that says SUBARU in silver letters on a black background. The air intake hose will connect to the back side of this manifold. Just a long shot, but are you sure the timing isn't 180 degrees out? Also make sure the distributor is installed with the rotor at the correct position- easy mistake to make when installing an engine. This sounds exactly like what happened to my car when the distributor rotor retaining screw fell out. It's worth a look... just pop the disty cap and make sure the rotor is on tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I think, when you connect the green plug, the fuel pump should cycle on and off continuesly. This will tell you if the injectors are getting fuel. Well, it will tell you if the filter is getting fuel. Did you change the filter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvScooby Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 I replaced the fuel pump, and made sure it was pumping. I also made sure that when cyl. #1 was at btdc, the rotor was at the #1 plug wire. I just don't think my injectors are injecting. Would the lack of a knock sensor keep them from working? I do have the spider intake, but I don't know what year model the engine is. The engine does still have it's i.d. sticker on it near the hole for the rear timing marks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Verify if you have fuel getting to the injectors. Did you replace the fuel filter? Sitting for that long could it have gone bad, not to mention it might have junk from the tank in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 are you getting spark? code 14 is a crank angle sensor....that's what tells the coil to fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrickell Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 are you getting spark? code 14 is a crank angle sensor....that's what tells the coil to fire. CAS--exactly what I was thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvScooby Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 Yeah, I do have spark. I checked that at the plug. I put a fresh filter on when I changed the fuel pump. I have fuel coming from the 'out' side of the filter. I also have fuel coming from the return line from the injectors to the tank. I have an 88 xt fsm, and it said that code 14 was 'injectors 1&2 output abnormal'. My car is an 87 1/2. Is the code different for the 87 1/2? If they are different, can someone tell me what code 15 is? Is code 22 still knock sensor? Thanks for all of these ideas!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrickell Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Yeah, I do have spark. I checked that at the plug. I put a fresh filter on when I changed the fuel pump. I have fuel coming from the 'out' side of the filter. I also have fuel coming from the return line from the injectors to the tank. I have an 88 xt fsm, and it said that code 14 was 'injectors 1&2 output abnormal'. My car is an 87 1/2. Is the code different for the 87 1/2? If they are different, can someone tell me what code 15 is? Is code 22 still knock sensor? Thanks for all of these ideas!!! Just a thought, maybe it is not if there IS spark, it is WHEN there is spark. Does the CAS have anything to do with this? If you do a search on the forum for engine codes, xt codes, something like that, you should be able to find some discussion on what codes are what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausubaru92 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 All ecu's from 87.5 - 94 should be interchaneable. Turbo is same pinout as non turbo, only the turbo ecu has a few extra wires, one for Knock sensor, the other for WasteGate Duty Solenoid. Could your injector resistor pack be bad? One side of the injector has +ve power all the time, it is the neative side that is switched by the ecu, and the current is limited by 4 resistors, these are located on the right hand side strut tower (not sure if it is opposite on USDM cars) (i hope that made sense) I think that your best bet would be to find out what all the codes are. Gannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 another possibility when the swap was done they decided to do timing belts and botched the job (not hard to do) Have you run a compression check? I will assume when you said "I made sure the timing was correct" the timing (ignition) was checked with the green connectors connected? For the injector flow question, pull one stick it in a jar crank the engine to start and look for then smell the output. Possibly "green gas" is still living in the injection system. I like Gannons sug to check the injector ballast resistors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvScooby Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 I didn't check timing with green connectors plugged. I have heard of this procedure, but I don't know how to do it. What will be different with the connectors plugged? How do I check the timing with them plugged? That is something I am not sure of. I checked the fusible links, but I don't know about the resistor pack...I'll look for it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 The timing (ignition) must be always be checked with the green diagnostic connectors plugged together. The timing of the ignition system is controlled by the ECU. The ECU must be "frozen" in it's static position. To accomplish this the idle switch must be closed. (This located in the TPS and if the correct TPS is in use and it has not been "dittled" with, it should be closed at idle) and the green connectors connected. Pull the plugs and crank, timing should be ~ 20 deg BTDC You ignored the timing belt question on purpose - yes? While you have the plugs out for the above procedure, it may be a good time to check the comp. for this test Prop the throttle at WOT (Wide Open Thottle) and ground the coil wire, or pull the ECU/ignition fuse (#11) Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMVR53 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I didn't check timing with green connectors plugged. I have heard of this procedure, but I don't know how to do it. What will be different with the connectors plugged? How do I check the timing with them plugged? That is something I am not sure of. I checked the fusible links, but I don't know about the resistor pack...I'll look for it. Thanks. 87 XT here....my "lil green plug" is right side trunk under the speaker shelf. really good place to put it...took me a week to find it Bill F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvScooby Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 I have used the green connector to check for codes, so I'm okay with the location. I don't think my fsm tells anything about the need for the green plug while timing, so I know that has not been done. The timing belts were wrong when I got the car...they were new, but were on wrong. I set the flywheel on the center of the 'lll' marks and set the passenger cam mark to the mark in the cover. I rotated the crank 360 and lined the other cam up to its mark too. When the flywheel is turned to 20deg., my pass. cam is 45deg left of straight up, and the other sprocket mark is 45 deg right of down. Isn't that right? I could be confused. I will have to get an adaptor to run a comp. check, mine won't fit. That's on the list of things to do. The list grows and grows...haha...keep the ideas flowing, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 You did the cam shaft positioning correctly, well done. Reset the timing w/ the green connectors connected. Now for the green gas or "gum" as it may have become from the several years of sitting in the injectors. They may be plugged with the stuff, it is hard to pull one I know the fuel rail makes it a PIA. But If you had it in a jar you could verify it's squirting. Then a can of Seafoam in the gas tank and keep getting it to "hit" on starting fluid or gas poured in the thottle body. I had a JDM once that wouldn't fire, had been sitting for who knows how long it took to get across the pond. Using the above method, finally one cyl then two and eventualy all four had fire in the hole. Good luck, you'll get it Here is what the injector resistor pack looks like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvScooby Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 Seafoam....I've heard of it, but haven't seen it. I will look for it this weekend for sure. Now when you say 'reset' the timing with the green plugs plugged, do you mean to just crank it over for a few seconds? If so, does it matter if the spark plugs are in or not? I'm sorry if these are basic tasks, but I just want to make sure I'm doing the basics right. I guess I should do a search for the procedure. Any info you have time to type out is a great help. I'm learning...hehe... I don't ever remember seeing that resistor bank, but now that I know what it looks like I can try to hunt it down. I tried pulling one of the injectors out several months back, and it didn't want to come out. I didn't try to make it. I'll try it again, but I think I'll try to drain the tank thoroughly first then add some fresh gas and some seafoam. Thanks so much for your suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvScooby Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 I cannot find the resistor pack anywhere!! I'll keep looking. I snapped a couple of pics, but I don't know how to down size them to post them. I'm afraid they'll be HUGE!! Also was unable to drain the tank due to no drain plug, and I couldn't siphon the old gas out either. It seems as if there is something in the lower portion of the filler neck that keeps hoses of various sizes from passing, or so it seems. Man, I don't want to take this tank off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvScooby Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 Grrrr!!! There is no drain for the gas tank. I have also tried to get a hose down into the tank, but that doesn't work either. I don't know if there's some sort of 'block' to prevent this or not. I guess I'm gonna have to drop the tank. I also pulled two injectors and fitted clear rubber hose on them, and cranked the engine. There was no gas whatsoever, so I at least know that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 pull the fuel line off from the fuel filter input, add an extension to extend it to a gas can. plug the green connectors together turn the ig sw on. she'll pump the tank down. Don't take it to empty you don't want to pull all that crud through the fuel pump. did you get my email? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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