adam Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 all the parts for my conversion have finally trickeled in. planning on a 144volt 550amp conversion which is 79200 watts X .00134 (conversion)=106 horsepower. but because it will be heavier (12 lead acid batteries) it should have similar performance as a gas version. i'm trying not to look back, but i could be driving the sube around now if i didn't go tearing it apart.:-\ anyway, in my dismantling fervor i neglected to measure the position of the transmission against a fixed point, so now i don't really know how high to build the front mount for the electric motor. i'm told i could screw up drivetrain angularity or the shift linkage. anybody ever deal with this- maybe in an engine swap or something? is there some rule of thumb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailgatewagon Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 nice to see someone is doing this ive wanted to build an electric suby and have looked into it for some time.. i belive that the measurement you want is from the motor mount to the trany serface.. anyway someone will have the measurements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftt Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Sweet! I'm actually going the same route with my '79 Brat within the next couple years. It's an ideal platform because it's so light and there's a ton of space for battery frames to be built under the bed. I don't know where you're at in the process but can't you just put the tranny back in and measure? Have fun with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 hehe this is going to be cool... i don't really know how you plan on setting it all up, but it'd be kinda cool to have a 4wd trans then run an electric motor from the input shaft then two more on either side from the fwd stubs... then have a rwd 3 engine suby!:-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 "can't you just put the tranny back in and measure?" the transmission only mounts toward the rear so without the engine attached i don't know what height the front should be. sorry if this doesn't make sense, i'm confusing myself as well. i'll probably just end up winging it, making a temporary forward mount that is adjustable either way (jack), a block of wood, a bundle of twine and i'm off! i looked at using a brat as a donor car for the same reasons but the extra drive shaft really sucks up the energy/range. my front wheel drive car came with factory snow chains so i'm hoping traction won't be too much of a problem. besides if i had a 4wd electric subie i would have to thrash around the woods with it and it wouldn't be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 your coupe should have a kinda trans support hanger thing that helps stabalize then engine... there is a bracket that mounts to the trans then it goes up and attaches to a spot under the spare tire area... that should give you proper measurements if you just hang it off that... i can take a pic to show it better... tell me if you need em... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75subie Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 i have met Adam and seen his project, it really is a beauty, looking forward to seeing it when it is done:headbang: the car itself looked spotless in and out, and so did the gas motor that is now sitting in my back yard:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 75 sube- hows it going -good lord don't remind me about my forsaken engine -what have i done? no its ok really i think, or it will be someday. zefy- right! that stabilizer thingy hanging off of somewhere. that should put me back where i want to be. very cool. its around here somwhere...i did mark stuff with tape, wires and such, the more obvious parts i didn't mark because of course it goes back here...or here...somewhere...no i'll figure it out-but thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyB0y Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 This sounds like alot of fun! I am curious, how long do the batteries last? (as in how long belofer they have to be recycled and replaced) How far should you be able to drive between charges? How long will it take to charge up? I'm also curious if you will have some sort of solar power generation at your house to charge it? It's making me think twice about making my brat a lifted beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftt Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 You're right about the extra prop sucking energy. I'm thinking ahead though. My goal is to make it an all around vehicle that I can go camping in to support my mountian bike habit. To achieve this, I'm ultimately going to make it a hybrid so the range will not be an issue. I'm going to retain the stock fuel tank and run a small diesel generator under the hood to charge the batteries. I'm also playing with the idea of connecting the crank shaft on the diesel motor to the electric motor via an electric clutch that will engage at a set RPM so it will help the electric motor achieve and maintain respectable freeway speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 This sounds like alot of fun! I am curious, how long do the batteries last? (as in how long belofer they have to be recycled and replaced) How far should you be able to drive between charges? How long will it take to charge up? I'm also curious if you will have some sort of solar power generation at your house to charge it? It's making me think twice about making my brat a lifted beast yeah it should be a bunch of fun. one cool feature about electric motors is that they develop most of their power at zero RPM and taper as the rpm climbs. for most powerul accelleration you would pick a normally too tall gear, for most efficency you pick a gear that gives you high rpms, the opposite of an internal combustion engine. also you can leave it in 2nd gear around the city and drive around like an automatic since the motor doesn't idle it won't stall; 2nd gear has enough torque to launch the vehicle and you can stay in till 40 mph or so. wind on it! only one moving part- no recipricoting engine parts. the deep cycle traction type batteries (usually 6 or 8 volt, sometimes 12 in smaller or faster conversions) are said to last 2-4 years depending on quality and if the water levels are kept up. with a 110 volt on board charging, a fully depleted pack can charge in 8-10 hours (overnight). faster with a 220 charger. the plan is to add solar panels on our house when we replace are roof, but all my cash is wrapped up in the car right now. cool thing about where we live (portland, maine) is that you can sign up for green electric power, which is 80% electricty from a sustainable flow through dam in Lisbon Falls and 20% windpower from new england windmills. it costs 9cents a kwh. even using oil fired electrical power, it is 97% cleaner then an internal combustion engine because it takes power from one huge efficient plant rather then a bunch of little plants rolling along. not that i'm dissing on the venerable i.c.e., it still offers the best range to weight ratio. but the oil is running out. check out www.eaaev.org. you could make an electric lifted beast brat:slobber: the range would probably suck, but who cares! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 You're right about the extra prop sucking energy. I'm thinking ahead though. My goal is to make it an all around vehicle that I can go camping in to support my mountian bike habit. To achieve this, I'm ultimately going to make it a hybrid so the range will not be an issue. I'm going to retain the stock fuel tank and run a small diesel generator under the hood to charge the batteries. I'm also playing with the idea of connecting the crank shaft on the diesel motor to the electric motor via an electric clutch that will engage at a set RPM so it will help the electric motor achieve and maintain respectable freeway speed. cool. or have the batteries under the hood and under or in the bed (for weight balance) and you can just slide the generator in the bed when you need it, slide it out when you don't. one drawback is the amount of electricty required to keep the vehicle at cruising speed. it ends up being a pretty big generator. i like the clutch idea. one problem i can think of is designing a progressive type electric motor assist so its not all on or all off. might get jerky. i think we will be definitely be seeing a lot more diesel hybrids- maybe yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Adam: Please excuse all my questions, as I find this an interesting project. do you frequent this site? http://www.electricdrive.org/ Have you considered using AC instead of DC? Siemans makes and excellent system but it's salty (i.e. high priced) Where are you sourcing the electronic drive control system? From what I have read, AC control is much more efficient and adaptable to vehicle powering. Here is one off the shelf unit that shows promise http://www.acpropulsion.com/Products/AC_150.htm I have two elveh's (electric vehicles) in the works. I think the one may go to EA81 power though it was designed as an elveh Good luck and keep the dream alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftt Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I'm actually trying to keep the 'stock look' from the exterior. This includes full use of the bed after I'm done. For those familiar with the Gen1 Brat, if you crawl underneath the bed, you'll notice some large empty spaces between the cab and the rear wheels and then again behind the rear wheels. These are where I'm planning to build/install the battery boxes at. Low center of gravity and out of sight. I want the genset located under the hood so I can tap into the crank's output and couple it to the motor's shaft with a clutch. I may have to address the rear suspension depending on what the battery load ends up being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcat55371 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Hey Adam, Good luck and keep us informed. Back when I had my camo wagon I was toying with the idea of running a electri motor on just the rear end. Would mean no more 4x4 but the car was to rusty to stick another 4000.00 plus into. You might find some helpful info from this guy and his electric Fiero: http://greenplanet3.org/ev/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Adam: Please excuse all my questions, as I find this an interesting project. do you frequent this site? http://www.electricdrive.org/ Have you considered using AC instead of DC? Siemans makes and excellent system but it's salty (i.e. high priced) Where are you sourcing the electronic drive control system? From what I have read, AC control is much more efficient and adaptable to vehicle powering. Here is one off the shelf unit that shows promise http://www.acpropulsion.com/Products/AC_150.htm I have two elveh's (electric vehicles) in the works. I think the one may go to EA81 power though it was designed as an elveh Good luck and keep the dream alive. hi yeah i considered using ac power but like you said it is more expensive, like twice as much. i guess it has less issues with resistance in the cables and such but I'm using pretty thick 2/0 cable with the dc system so there shouldn't be too much trouble there. dc is a simpler technology and i wouldn't need any inverters to charge from solar if i ever get that far. thanks for the web site tips. i'll check em out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Adam the issue is controlling the current the motor draws and thus the speed of the vehicle. DC is simple but .. if you use resistance the efficiency is very poor. The heat disapated from the resistors is wasted energy. Look at the current line of electric golf carts vs. the old school models. I hope you spend some time researching the control system as it can make or break a project such as yours. By all means good luck and please keep us updated. BTW solar can still be used to charge the batteries in a AC system.. The batteries are still. DC, the controller and motor are the AC components. Surplus supply houses are a good source for both systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Adam the issue is controlling the current the motor draws and thus the speed of the vehicle. DC is simple but .. if you use resistance the efficiency is very poor. The heat disapated from the resistors is wasted energy. Look at the current line of electric golf carts vs. the old school models. I hope you spend some time researching the control system as it can make or break a project such as yours. By all means good luck and please keep us updated. BTW solar can still be used to charge the batteries in a AC system.. The batteries are still. DC, the controller and motor are the AC components. Surplus supply houses are a good source for both systems. I don't think anyone still uses resistance for speed control any more? All of the controllers you can buy for DC motors are PWM. On the charging from solar, the battery packs for the AC systems are typically around 300 volts, where the DC systems usually use 96 or 120 volts. Just means more solar panels in series to charge the battery bank for the AC system. But most grid-tied PV systems are running around 300 volts anyway nowadays, so it might be pretty easy to hotwire one of those to the electric car bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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