scrap487 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I was looking at the front of my subaru the other day, and noticed how the control arms arent really all that flat, and how I still have some bad camber. I have no idea what stock suspension geometry is(because I didnt even look at it before I took it apart and lifted the car...) but if I were to lower the engine cradle just a little bit to flatten out the angle of the control arms, wouldnt that push the bottom of the tires out? I know reduced ground clearance becomes an issue, but I dont think it would take very much, and you SHOULD have a beefy skid plate anyways(I dont...). I figure it will also widen the wheel base ever so slightly, but I figure it wont affect the axles negatively, it should decrease the angles on the axles. another one of my ideas was mounting rollers or castor wheels to skid plates n stuff so when I do highcenter its easier to get off of it or over it... I dont know how practical that is though, but if you have a locker or too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik litchy Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I was looking at the front of my subaru the other day, and noticed how the control arms arent really all that flat, and how I still have some bad camber. I have no idea what stock suspension geometry is(because I didnt even look at it before I took it apart and lifted the car...) but if I were to lower the engine cradle just a little bit to flatten out the angle of the control arms, wouldnt that push the bottom of the tires out? I know reduced ground clearance becomes an issue, but I dont think it would take very much, and you SHOULD have a beefy skid plate anyways(I dont...). I figure it will also widen the wheel base ever so slightly, but I figure it wont affect the axles negatively, it should decrease the angles on the axles. another one of my ideas was mounting rollers or castor wheels to skid plates n stuff so when I do highcenter its easier to get off of it or over it... I dont know how practical that is though, but if you have a locker or too... can you remount the strut tops inward? what would happen if you just made longer control arms or extended the ones you ahve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 can you remount the strut tops inward? what would happen if you just made longer control arms or extended the ones you ahve? You have to take a BFH to the inside of the fender the way it is to keep the springs from hitting. To move the strut tops over you would have to do a lot more hammering, pluse grinding and modification to the spacer. Making new control arms wouldn't be within the budget of 99.9% of Subaru wheelers. Extending existing control arms could cause safty issues, and more alingment problems. Lowering the engine crossmember would take two peices of flat strap with holes drilled in them. Very simple mod, low cost, and sounds like it should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 of course you could put bigger blocks on the engine crossmember to fix the camber. but you'd be losing at least an inch of ground clearance! That's what sets us apart from all the solid axle guys, we've got better ground clearance. I'd have to lose 2 inches, since both of my wagons have taller strut blocks then xmember blocks.....I'll take the camber, thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 scrap when you did your lift is everything 6 " or ... , give us some info on what you have , if the struts, engine crossmember and tranny crossmember and radius mts are all dropped the same your camber should be stock, so what did you do lets see some numbers and good closeup pictures SJR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Has anyone had the camber checked after the addition of a lift to see if it is still within factory specs? Is it just the bigger tires that makes it look worse than it is? Does the suspenssion flaten out while driveing? After installing a 3" BYB lift on mine it doesn't track around corners when flat towing I found out. All though I never tried flat towing it stock so that doesn't really prove anything. My concern would be tire wear more than the lose of a little ground clearance. It's like airing down the tires on the trail, I'll take the traction and smooth ride over the lose of ground clearance. Not to pop any bubbles but and inch or so of clearance doesn't have anything on a solid axle with articulation to keep all the tires on the ground. Unless your deep snow wheelin'. I hope to DD my Hatch when I finish it and don't want to be eating up tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Not to pop any bubbles but and inch or so of clearance doesn't have anything on a solid axle with articulation to keep all the tires on the ground. Unless your deep snow wheelin'. that's just not true up here. I've seen many times where jeeps have had all the weight on the front or rear sitting on the diff, and 3 wheels spinning. there's one trail where theres a big log going diagonally across the trail, and the trail is to narrow to turn at it straight. I've pulled a jeep off that everytime I've gone through it, and then stepped right over it with my LSD without trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 that's just not true up here. I've seen many times where jeeps have had all the weight on the front or rear sitting on the diff, and 3 wheels spinning. there's one trail where theres a big log going diagonally across the trail, and the trail is to narrow to turn at it straight. I've pulled a jeep off that everytime I've gone through it, and then stepped right over it with my LSD without trouble. And should I ASSume stock jeep w/ open diffs. Pics of a Soob pulling a high centered Heep would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 they don't track on corners when flat towing stock either. Has anyone had the camber checked after the addition of a lift to see if it is still within factory specs? Is it just the bigger tires that makes it look worse than it is? Does the suspenssion flaten out while driveing? After installing a 3" BYB lift on mine it doesn't track around corners when flat towing I found out. All though I never tried flat towing it stock so that doesn't really prove anything. My concern would be tire wear more than the lose of a little ground clearance. It's like airing down the tires on the trail, I'll take the traction and smooth ride over the lose of ground clearance. Not to pop any bubbles but and inch or so of clearance doesn't have anything on a solid axle with articulation to keep all the tires on the ground. Unless your deep snow wheelin'. I hope to DD my Hatch when I finish it and don't want to be eating up tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Thanks! One question down. Kind of figured that, but had never flat towed one in stock form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballitch Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 your idea for putting a spacer in between engine crossmember and frame is good, ill be doing this to correct my 2.5 degrees of positive camber after my 5-lug swap. i think 1/2'' might be enough, maybe 3/4'' just to be safe. ~Josh~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 when I stuck 27" tires on my unlifted sube the camber looked crazy. Subarus have bad camber stock, the small wheels and tires just hide it better than big ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 when I stuck 27" tires on my unlifted sube the camber looked crazy. Subarus have bad camber stock, the small wheels and tires just hide it better than big ones. if the camber is stock, it is not considered bad camber, because it is within spec. my camber is not within spec by about 4-5 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyirishmen Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Scrap, your cambers still bad! I was wondering the same thing scott was asking is your crossmember lowered 6" inches or is it only 4" inches? I was looking at pictures and it looks like its only lowered 4" inches, which would make sense why Albie had to offset your strut extensions by almost 2-2.5 inches. Tell us more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Scrap, your cambers still bad! I was wondering the same thing scott was asking is your crossmember lowered 6" inches or is it only 4" inches? I was looking at pictures and it looks like its only lowered 4" inches, which would make sense why Albie had to offset your strut extensions by almost 2-2.5 inches. Tell us more. no my engine cross member is dropped 6" just like everything else. my camber is MUCH better and I'm grateful that albie help me get it as good as it was. if you do the math, the top of the strut doesnt sit flat, it sits at 22.5 degrees, if you have a block that isnt cut at an angle you will HAVE to have the holes offset about 2.3" inorder to drop the strut STRAIGHT down, albie was only able to offset the tops I think by about 1"-1.5" before the blocks or struts hit the frame/fenderwell, we did a ton of bashing too. I think my subaru might just be the runt of the litter... I'll get some pics of the suspension with the car sitting flat today. right now I still have bad camber, but its hard to tell upclose, and i can drive it on the highway comfortably now... all I need now is a weber so I can trash my junk carb and maybe make it to 60mph in less than 30 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 the top of the strut doesnt sit flat, it sits at 22.5 degrees, If I remember correctly I think its more like 12.5 degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 if you have a block that isnt cut at an angle you will HAVE to have the holes offset about 2.3" inorder to drop the strut STRAIGHT down, albie was only able to offset the tops I think by about 1"-1.5" before the blocks or struts hit the frame/fenderwell, ok so your still close to a inch off on each side:eek: :brow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redscab Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 you could go with Gen1 Front struts, as because they are smaller diameter, you would be able to get them closer to the inner fender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88HatchMonster Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 inorder to drop the strut STRAIGHT down, albie was only able to offset the tops I think by about 1"-1.5" before the blocks or struts hit the frame/fenderwell, we did a ton of bashing too. You can only bash so far. I was able to achieve perfect 0 degree camber on my lifted hatch by splitting the strut towers in half and pushing them in toward the engine. I then welded in new metal to bridge the gap. I was left with slots that allow me to go anywhere from -2 to +5 camber. In order to clear the master cylinder on the driver's side, I removed the 1/2" spacer where the brake booster bolts to the firewall and cut down the studs that come out of it by the same amount. This gets you a little more room to push in the strut tower. Does this make sense, Scrap? It may be your next option if you really want perfect camber. Don't attempt it without a good mig welder, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik litchy Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Making new control arms wouldn't be within the budget of 99.9% of Subaru wheelers. i really dont think it would cost more than $25 in raw parts each?i know where to buy the tapered reamer for the ball joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 really dont think it would cost more than $25 in raw parts each?i know where to buy the tapered reamer for the ball joint. i'm really not sure about this (a guess really) but isn't the ea82 control arms longer? adaptablilty...? also making control arms seems kinda risky... having a control arm break when going down the freeway would really suck...*pictures it*... *shudders*... anywho... no they probably wouldn't be hard to make... you could also make em a little different profile as to make a smidge more ground clearance... i know i've hit my control arms a couple times... or you could go all out and swap in legacy front suspension... the legacy has fully adjustable camber, caster, and toe-in... (while ea82 and prior only have toe-in... but you all prabably know that already... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 you cant use longer control arms unless you have custom axles made, even half an inch will cause massive problems. the only way to push the bottom of the wheels out is to flatten out the control arms by lowering the engine crossmember, that way the angle on the axles is reduced and they arent hyperextended. I was going to get some pictures today, but it broke down going up 26 up to mt hood this morning, was GOING to go skiing, finally just got back around 2am after hauling a trailer up there with my dad to bring it back home didnt have anything to do with the lift, i was a few miles out of govt camp, going up I think the steepest grade of the hill in 2nd at 5k rpms... and then it cut out... replaced the fuel pump, filters, coil(after spending about 5 hours trying to work out some ghetto fab crap), still not sure if its ignition or fuel, its sporadic, and now my starter is about dead and I think some gears on the flywheel may be broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 damn that sucks.hows govy this time of year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik litchy Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 i'm really not sure about this (a guess really) but isn't the ea82 control arms longer? adaptablilty...? also making control arms seems kinda risky... having a control arm break when going down the freeway would really suck...*pictures it*... *shudders*... people make them all the time. i actually think the stock ones look wimpy. how about a hiem joint for the frame side for adjustability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik litchy Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 you cant use longer control arms unless you have custom axles made, even half an inch will cause massive problems. are there longer axles fitted to any other car that may be adapted? maybe just the axle part itself, without the joints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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