More T-coupe troubleshooting (not ECU codes anymore)

[Ever Victorious]

OK... got the coil hooked back up (unless that gray wire needs to go somewhere).

 

Turned it over, does the same exact thing it did before... and I've noticed that the longer it sits without me trying to turn it over, the more it sounds like it wants to fire the instant I turn the key. (we're talking waiting days here).

 

Anyway, like the brilliant boy I am, I FINALLY had the brilliant idea of checking the ECU.

 

I get:

Code 11, Ingition Pulse System

Code 12, Starter Switch Off

 

What causes these failures, and could they be the reason for the no-start?

[naru]

OK... got the coil hooked back up (unless that gray wire needs to go somewhere).

 

Turned it over, does the same exact thing it did before... and I've noticed that the longer it sits without me trying to turn it over, the more it sounds like it wants to fire the instant I turn the key. (we're talking waiting days here).

 

Anyway, like the brilliant boy I am, I FINALLY had the brilliant idea of checking the ECU.

 

I get:

Code 11, Ingition Pulse System

Code 12, Starter Switch Off

 

What causes these failures, and could they be the reason for the no-start?

 

Yes,you need the grey wire.

Code 11 is normal on a no start but in your case it IS significant.

It is the ignition pulse signal wire to the ECU.W/O it,the ECU doesn`t know engine RPM.

 

Code 12 reflects the fact that the ECU hasn`t seen 12V on pin 9 from the starter solenoid.12V here puts the ECU into start mode.Don`t remember for sure,but,I think this is normal if the starter hasn`t been used for a while.

[Ever Victorious]

Yes,you need the grey wire.

Code 11 is normal on a no start but in your case it IS significant.

It is the ignition pulse signal wire to the ECU.W/O it,the ECU doesn`t know engine RPM.

 

Code 12 reflects the fact that the ECU hasn`t seen 12V on pin 9 from the starter solenoid.12V here puts the ECU into start mode.Don`t remember for sure,but,I think this is normal if the starter hasn`t been used for a while.

 

Well, I just love to make things more complicated.

 

I think the ECU codes are completely irrelevant to the problem. When I hooked up the gray wire to the coil, the ECU stopped throwing codes, and the ECS light turned off.

 

Still hasn't changed the fact that the car won't start. Closest it will come is if I let it sit overnight, the first turn will ALMOST get the car started. Then it just sits there and turns over forever like it's missing something for combustion, take your pick.

 

I now know for SURE that it's not fuel, since I can smell fuel on the spark plugs AND unburned fuel in the tailpipe...

 

I know the car is getting spark. At least on one cylinder. Maybe I should go back and try the other 3. There has been debate as to whether the spark is strong enough. The car will start with ether sprayed in the TB, but dies as soon as the ether burns off. The spark I've been getting doesn't make a loud "SNAP" like I've been told it's supposed to.

 

 

and, of course, I don't know my knuckes from the distributor, so if I open it up, I have no clue what I'm looking for.

 

 

Anyone wanna help diag it in person?

[keltik]

I had this problem with my EA82T, it would turn over and fire occasionally but wouldnt start, leaving it over night seemed to make it better. Assuming your compression is good it must be an ignition problem

 

The remedy that worked for me;

First up i checked the battery connections - and sure enough they were corroded as hell. New connectors, cleaned the terminals and added a temporary ground from engine.

 

Cleaned all the plugs up and gapped them then cranked for about 10 secs with my foot flat on the floor. She did eventually fire up and threw out a huge wadge of black smog but it fixed the no start problem.

 

Also try popping your fuel line off the engine and pumping some into a can, on the vortex we got about 100mls of nasty brown fuel out then clean stuff - were assuming that was compounding the problem!

 

KELTIK

[naru]

Well, I just love to make things more complicated.

 

I think the ECU codes are completely irrelevant to the problem. When I hooked up the gray wire to the coil, the ECU stopped throwing codes, and the ECS light turned off.

 

Still hasn't changed the fact that the car won't start. Closest it will come is if I let it sit overnight, the first turn will ALMOST get the car started. Then it just sits there and turns over forever like it's missing something for combustion, take your pick.

 

I now know for SURE that it's not fuel, since I can smell fuel on the spark plugs AND unburned fuel in the tailpipe...

 

I know the car is getting spark. At least on one cylinder. Maybe I should go back and try the other 3. There has been debate as to whether the spark is strong enough. The car will start with ether sprayed in the TB, but dies as soon as the ether burns off. The spark I've been getting doesn't make a loud "SNAP" like I've been told it's supposed to.

 

 

and, of course, I don't know my knuckes from the distributor, so if I open it up, I have no clue what I'm looking for.

 

 

Anyone wanna help diag it in person?

 

Seeing how it starts w/ether,it is more likely a fuel problem than spark.

Sounds like it might be flooded.

Could be not enough fuel too despite the gasoline odor.

I would clean and dry the plugs and try again w/the CTS disconnected.

Check for spark at each cyl. too.

If that didn`t work,I would check fuel pressure in order to reveal plugged filters or leaky or stuck injectors.

Has this car ever run for you?

[Ever Victorious]

Seeing how it starts w/ether,it is more likely a fuel problem than spark.

Sounds like it might be flooded.

Could be not enough fuel too despite the gasoline odor.

I would clean and dry the plugs and try again w/the CTS disconnected.

Check for spark at each cyl. too.

If that didn`t work,I would check fuel pressure in order to reveal plugged filters or leaky or stuck injectors.

Has this car ever run for you?

 

To answer Keltik's response (and part of this one), the fuel tank was already drained, new fuel added, and the fuel filter replaced.

 

Also, the two passenger side injectors were replaced. I cannot get to the driver's side injectors, they're buried under the A/C system, which I do not have the equipment to remove safely.

 

Uhm... what's a CTS?

 

No, the car has never run for me.

 

I'm serious when I ask if someone wants to come help me diagnose it. I am WAY over my head in this project. It was described to me as likely a simple matter of replacing the injectors and fuel rails... not realizing that this was FAR more involved than indicated.

 

I also know someone here said they wanted the engine if I didn't want it, but I can't remember who. If said person is still interested, they can have this engine PROVIDED they supply and install a FUNCTIONAL EA81 carbed.

 

I just want to get the damn thing running... and most of this is way beyond my knowledge.

[keltik]

Well if you pay my air-fare ill be on the first flight out!

 

But seriously although doing this much work on your car seems hard, if you follow these fellas advice and work carefully and logically - you'll get there in the end.

 

As for your problem - im not a suby expert yet, but your CTS (coolant temperature sensor) is located on the passenger side of the throttle body. if you pop the wire off it and give the contacts a clean up it should help.

 

KELTIK

[soobscript]

I cannot get to the driver's side injectors, they're buried under the A/C system, which I do not have the equipment to remove safely.

 

You don't need to discharge the AC system. Just remove the compressor mounting bolts (might have to take some belts off too). Then you can move the whold thing out of the way, the lines are flexible.

[Ever Victorious]

OK... just did a little more stuff to it to try to isolate.

 

Coil wire spark test: Spark off of coil wire is strong. Probably stronger than the spark off the plug wires.

 

Looked inside distributor: appears clean, no broken wires or contacts. the 3 wires at the top of the disty are strongly attached to their connectors, I don't feel comfortable removing them because it is taking a lot of force. Reseated them. Cleaned the pickup (is that what it is called on the non-points type?). Reseated the distributor.

 

Starter: Tried starting the car by bypassing the ignition switch by shorting the starter solenoid and + battery cable (which, by the way, scared the living bejesus out of me).

 

None of these had any effect.

 

For what its worth, when I replaced the + batt cable when I bought the car (due to the cable overheating), the digidash stopped working immediately afterward, giving the "scream of death"... even with the alt disconnected.

[Turbone]

I dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but check the fusible links.

[Ever Victorious]

ok, more:

 

Spark: Finally tested all 4 cylinders. Spark on both driver's side cylinders are very weak. Tested with one of the passenger side wires hooked into a driver's side post on the disty and I think the spark was better. Or I suck.

 

Fusible Links: Either I'm not correctly identifying their holder, or I am but am unable to open it to check. I suck.

 

ECU: Dunno if it means anything, but the car reacts exactly the same way with the ECU disconnected. Probably meaningless.

[Turbone]

Time to take a day off from it. Usually works for me when I get frustrated;)

[Ever Victorious]

Hmm... this isn't looking so promising.

 

Continuing on with the troubleshooting, I figured weak spark is the most likely cause (since my symptoms sound identical to ausubaru92's problems with his car, see today's thread).

 

Replaced cap and rotor, plug and coil wires, and the coil itself. Spark STILL looks weak, and the car still won't run, does the exact same thing it's been doing.

 

My friend brought his tools back to my garage, which included a compression tester.

 

Test shows:

 

#1: 140 psi

#2: 60 psi

#3: 135 psi

#4: 80 psi

 

Let me guess... blown head gasket? IS this also why it's not starting, or have I just uncovered another unfortunate problem?

[keltik]

Yup that looks like a Blown Head Gasket to me. This probably would give you starting issues.

 

Hows your oil/coolant looking?

 

KELTIK

[Ever Victorious]

Yup that looks like a Blown Head Gasket to me. This probably would give you starting issues.

 

Hows your oil/coolant looking?

 

KELTIK

 

Uhm... it's in there? (Haven't checked, had no idea that this was a possibility until today)

[Ross]

Could well be a blown head gasket, but it should still start.... Have you tried running without the cts plugged in yet? Your symptoms do sound exectly like those a bad cts causes.

[Mr. Carb]

I looked at it yesterday, it seems to have problems getting fuel. I think his rear fuel filter needs replacing. We could hear air bubbling through the fuel system when we looked at it today and it runs if we dump starting fluid down the intake for a short time. Suggests to me that it's a fuel problem.