Before I see mechanic: shifter vibration/tranny

[Cynthia]

Hi --

 

I'm going to see the mechanic who put in my "new" tranny last week. 89 Soob, FWD, sedan.

 

I've got a vibration in my shifter. When I'm cruising, no vibration. When I engage clutch, no vibration. When I idle in neutral, no vibration. When I accelerate, gentle vibration starts until I get to 4RPM and then shifter at that point is vibrating enough that for awhile I thought it was the dashboard rattling. Nope, it's the shifter. at 4000 RPM or so, I shift and vibration vanishes until I get going again..

 

Today, going up a hill, though, I noticed that vibration in shifter was much more noticeable when I was accelerating even when in a lower rpm

 

I'm thinking this might have something to do with the transmission this fellow installed. Before I get there to talk with him, any thoughts from gurus here?

[Caboobaroo]

check the tranny mounts. Could be a case of them on their way out the door...

[Cynthia]

he said they were fine. i asked friday when i set up appointment for tuesday.

[chazmataz]

sounds like it might be a cv joint going out. mine vibrates as you described when i have an axle going out especially the doj ones.

[Cynthia]

doj hmm? had axles and cv boots done in 2004. hmm

[GeneralDisorder]

Yes - a bad Double Offset joint can indeed cause vibration. It's the inner joint of the front axles. Did you have rebuilt axles installed or new ones? Rebuilt units seem to not be of very good quality a lot of times.

 

GD

[Bill90Loyale]

Cynthia-

You might find this thread of interest.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15327

[jonas]

the cv's in my wagon were replaced a couple years ago with remans. one is going to ************ again. what does one expect for 50 bucks tho?:-\

[Cynthia]

Hi

 

Checked my invoice file. Two 18612 drive axles (left and right/front) were replaced 10/28/04 to the tune of $279. Same thing was done in 2001. Well, if you folks think this is the problem, the good news is that there is a 24 month warranty, it says on invoice.

 

I'm going now to check that link provided me in this thread.

 

Boy, hope I can get this one solved. The vibration seemed worse tonight, driving home.

 

I thought that if the vibration stopped when clutch was engaged that that might signal to me that the vibration was coming from transaxel area back.

 

No chance that he installed the tranny slightly off and somehow caused this?

 

oh yeah...the mechanic also told me that he saw a lock nut on shifting rod ... some bolt to the tranny... that he thought was way too loose...so he tightened it up real good. He is now worried that maybe it wasn't siuppose to be tightened up snugly and he asked me to ask you guys about it. (Am I making sense?)

 

Thanks!!!

[GeneralDisorder]

I don't know of any shifter bushings that are supposed to be anything but "tight".... shouldn't cause vibration in any case. The problem with verifying the double offset joints is they more or less must be removed to be checked, and at that point they might as well be replaced. Usually the vibration can be felt through the seat or steering wheel as well, but a slight vibration may not be felt, and power steering, if you have it, will diminish how much is felt there...

 

Usually when DOJ's fail they fail quickly, and the vibration is significant and very, very bad.

 

Another option - did your mechanic remove/change/adjust the clutch pressure plate at all? There are alignment marks on the pressure plate, and the flywheel for balanceing - they must be aligned at least 160 degrees apart if I recall correctly. This could cause a vibration in the engine that would transfer into the transmission and then your shifter any time you are in gear. It also matches your description of the vibration being more pronounced at the top of each gear.

 

GD

[Cynthia]

Thanks General Disorder --- boy, feel like I'm getting to know you!

 

1. After reading that thread at http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15327, I popped into my car and revved it up while idling with clutch in and clutch out. The vibration was present in shifter but not near as vibratey. (a new word for extra vibration..)

 

2. GD -- I have no idea if the mechanic did something with flywheel/pressure plate while installing my "new" tranny. Isn't that something he has to do during the install?

 

3. The flywheel thing seems more likely giving the vibration during idle when accelerating, yes? you think?

 

4. Diff? Could that cause this?

[GeneralDisorder]

Well - I try to help. Some of this Subaru specific knowledge is unknown to generic mechanics, and even to a lot of people here.

 

If the flywheel and clutch setup is out of balance, being that it's all attached - flywheel to crank, crank to engine, engine to tranny - the vibration with increasing RPM would transfer to the shifter to some extent even with the clutch engaged. Should be much more noticeable with the clutch out however, as that will connect the flywheel and clutch directly to the transmission. Be aware that this condition is VERY serious, as an out of balance flywheel/clutch assembly will destroy the engine main bearings in short order. Not trying to scare you, but it's true. Subaru's do not have dampening systems or counter-balance shafts due to their inherintly balanced opposing cylinder design - this makes them particularly vulnerable to balance issues.

 

Depending on the mechanic he may or may not have touched it. If he is a GOOD mechanic, he will follow this procedure (more or less) when the transmission is out of the car:

 

1. Mark the flywheel and clutch pressure plate to insure proper alignment durring reassembly

 

2. Remove and inspect the clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel mating surfaces, and the throwout bearing in the flywheel.

 

3. Clean all clutch dust from flywheel, and spray entire assembly with brake cleaner.

 

4. Reinstall the clutch (if it is good - otherwise reccomend replacement to customer) using the alignment marks made in step 1, and a clutch disc alignment tool.

 

If the worn pressure plate was re-installed to the flywheel in a different position than it was removed, then you may have a situation where the flywheel and clutch disc wear pattern is offset in a way that more mass is on one side of the assembled unit. This would cause a vibration just as you describe.

 

GD

[Cynthia]

(Postscript --- General D. replied faster than I could get this to screen.....)

 

Hmmm.... I've been doing reading in htkysa.pdf and found on page 353 this text that says: "14. Gearshift rattles or buzzes. Worn bushings or rubber

0- rings in the gearshift lever (Procedure 11)"

 

??? Maybe this is a possibility??

 

Wonder what the dif is between a rattle/buz & a vibration. I'd love to be able to record sounds and plug 'em into messages here so you could truly hear what I'm hearing. Think they had something like that at car talk one time.

 

This pdf booklet says that the engine has to be removed to get at the flywheel/pressure plate. I'm pretty sure mechanic didn't remove engine. So how could flywheel/pressure plate be set wrong? And I noticed those little "pegs" on flywheel. Don't you align to those pegs? (women! you get us to talking and we just don't shut up!)

 

I did hear mechanic say under his breath that it took more time that he had planned to get the tranny in and out. It was harder than he thought it would be, I guess. And I do recall him saying something about "that funky hill holder wasn't working but didn't matter"

 

Probably of little importance...but sharing..just so you know...

 

Wellllllll.....darn...

[Cynthia]

Yikes. Guess I know what I'm doing Tuesday. oh dear. Thanks for the kick in the touche. I didn't realize it was serious. That's good to know!!!!!!

[GeneralDisorder]

Well - anytime the engine and transmission are seperated the clutch is exposed. And the book says to pull the engine because it's what the Author prefers. Some of us prefer to pull the engine, other's prefer to pull the transmission. Personally I don't pull either, I just lift the engine far enough to pull it forward to where the radiator would be (I remove it first), and replace the clutch with both in the car. Since he was doing the transmission, the clutch would have been a natural thing to check, and him saying he had trouble mounting the transmission.... makes me thing he probably had the clutch apart at some point if for no other reason than just to swear at it and maybe let it know who's boss.

 

The pegs on the flywheel (very impressed you noticed those by the way) - they are spaced evenly and there are three (maybe four - can't recall) ways the flywheel can be turned and line up with the pegs.

 

Sound like he doesn't have a lot of experience mounting subaru transmissions. They are naughty critters sometimes, and there are tricks to getting the install to go smooth. I can usually mount one in 15 minutes or less with one other person to help me. I have done it my myself, but it's sticky without a transmission jack. If your mechanic has a lift and a transmission jack like he should in a proper shop it should be no trouble at all. I don't have those luxuries, and have done many without trouble.

 

The hill-holder is not difficult at all to attach and adjust - in fact it can be done without any tools at all. Fingers only.

 

If your shift linkage didn't rattle before the swap, then the bushings should be the same as the ones you had before.... and that book is mostly talking about the older 4 speed transmission which had a snap-on nylon bushing on the bottom of the main shift rod. They did wear out and rattle. The 5 speed's don't really do that. Mine has 215k on it and it's loose, but no rattle or vibration.

 

GD

[Cynthia]

Hey, if tam timing off one tooth would that present A vibration in motor that would be noticeable IN SHIFTER?

[rallyruss]

I have had shifter bushings cause a vibration more than once. Subaru acutally had an updated bushing to help eliminate the vibration/rattle. I have never tried to order the updated bushings so I dont know if its still available.

the tightening of the nut may very well have made your problem more noticable.

there of course may be other causes to your problem but the bushing would be a suspect. out of the 4 EA82 cars I have owned 3 have had bushing problems.

 

 

Hi

 

Checked my invoice file. Two 18612 drive axles (left and right/front) were replaced 10/28/04 to the tune of $279. Same thing was done in 2001. Well, if you folks think this is the problem, the good news is that there is a 24 month warranty, it says on invoice.

 

I'm going now to check that link provided me in this thread.

 

Boy, hope I can get this one solved. The vibration seemed worse tonight, driving home.

 

I thought that if the vibration stopped when clutch was engaged that that might signal to me that the vibration was coming from transaxel area back.

 

No chance that he installed the tranny slightly off and somehow caused this?

 

oh yeah...the mechanic also told me that he saw a lock nut on shifting rod ... some bolt to the tranny... that he thought was way too loose...so he tightened it up real good. He is now worried that maybe it wasn't siuppose to be tightened up snugly and he asked me to ask you guys about it. (Am I making sense?)

 

Thanks!!!

[stevo151617]

yeah, my 91 loyale does that, its my beater, so i dont really care, but to me it always felt like a problem through the high end of first and second gear, some people just deal with these problems and find out what it was when it finally causes some monumental problem, i am one of those people! however, my first assumption about my "mystery vibration" was somewhat of a normal operation, and after changing the gear oil inside the trans, the noise was unchanged. im not sure, but if your transmission was replaced with a used one "more than likely" you may have received an "abused" tranny. or it could be as simple as the tranny mount bushings. if the cv shafts are 2 years old, it is possible you did get some cruddy ones and they may need replacment, especially if you only paid 275$ to have it done. i dont know alot about subaru's but if they do use a shifter bushing, that would actually be your best bet!

[GeneralDisorder]

I would say you can safely rule out cam timing - in fact you can rule out anything he didn't touch, and in a transmission install there would be no reason to touch the timing belts.

 

So did you ascertain if he touched the clutch and flywheel assembly or not?

 

Have him loosen the bolt he tightened down - easy enough to test that possibility. Although you have fairly low mileage, and once again one would expect this to have shown itself prior to the trans install as you are using the same shift linkages.

 

Just my logic on the situation. Could be a funky tranny too - but I've never had one vibrate on me. That's just strange. I've heard them make noises, and grind and stuff - but vibration - serious vibration as you describe would cause the transmission to fail rather rapidly I would think. You can have him check the front axle "stubs" on the transmission - there are bearings there that could be on the way out. That's not very common tho.

 

GD

[Bill90Loyale]

Cynthia and GD-

Here's a description of my experience with shifter "buzzing" - and the fix.

 

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36469&highlight=shifter+buzz

[rallyruss]

Cynthia and GD-

Here's a description of my experience with shifter "buzzing" - and the fix.

 

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36469&highlight=shifter+buzz

 

thanks Bill thats exactly the problem I was trying to point out. subaru part numbers and all. thats good info.

[Holmes]

How long does it usually take to R&R that bushing? I have the

same problemo.

[rallyruss]

How long does it usually take to R&R that bushing? I have the

same problemo.

 

Its kind of a pain to get to. I would give yourself at least an hour and a Beer or two.

you may be able to do it quicker if you skip the beer step.

 

Holmes are interested in a bay area meet? check meet and greet if so.

[Bill90Loyale]

Its kind of a pain to get to. I would give yourself at least an hour and a Beer or two. You may be able to do it quicker if you skip the beer step. Holmes are interested in a bay area meet? check meet and greet if so.

Russ is right. Here's the basic procedure.

1. Order the parts in my email above (except the $25 one, unless you're the kind of guy who likes new stuff even if the old part is basically sound).

2. When the parts arrive, place a six pack in the refrigerator.

3. Remove shift knob by pulling down on the rubber accordian boot at the base of the knob and unscrewing the knob ccw from the shifter rod.

4. Remove the rubber shifting boot by pulling it off from the lip of the base (if there is a retainer bracket with screws at the base remove that to remove the boot). Now the guts are visible from the top.

5. Jack the car up and place on jackstands.

6. Crawl underneath with a flashlight and inspect the linkages to familiarize yourself with the setup.

7. Now the job becomes pretty self-evident. You'll see as you go. In a nutshell, you want to remove the shift lever (rod) from the car to replace the plastic ball and black rubber sheath or bushing over the ball. The old pieces will show you how the new pieces fit. The hardest part of the removal, as I recall, is a two or four inch pin removal in the linkage - not a whole lot of clearance to get it out (you'll see), but be patient. You'll get it out. Some of the repair is done from the top, and some from underneath.

8. When you have your nice new ball and sheath ready, grease everything up with a nice stiff wheel bearing grease and reassemble.

9. Remove jacks, and take her for a test drive.

10. Open the refrigerator.

[Cynthia]

Hello All!

 

Update ---

 

Car is with mechanic. Before work started, we did a drive in it and ruled out some things.

 

1) Tranny mount -- no, he said. He checked. Used prior one's. They were in excellent shape -- pads, fine, too.

2) Tranny itself -- has 5000 miles on it. It sounds WONDERFUL.

3) Flymount/p plate -- he didn't remove. He said sound of that being not set right isn't this vibration.

4) When car was stopped but running, gassed it/engaged/disengaged clutch. Vibration felt when wheels not moving. Rules out axle/joint.

5) He checked timing belts (l/r) Found one inch play on one; little play on other. Adjusted. Then also adjusted timing, which was off. Got more pep now in car, he said.

6) He said engine mounts seem fine. Lifted hood. Put car on e-brake, then tried to move it forward... he moved engine..both sides. Said mounts seem fine.

 

The vibration is still there. Subaru said to remove drive belts temporarily and run to isolate problem -- from "consumables" of engine power from engine itsef. <?>

 

Subarus said to ook at crankshaft pulley. <?>

 

Still think it's the rubber sheath on the shifter rod??

 

THANKS.

Sighing sunni