eagleb Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Please tell me it's not the head gasket... even though suby blue has 106,000 mi I started my car up just fine this morning, drove through some hills, and when I got to this one hill (where the car historically acts up), the car wouldn't accelerate (RPMs weren't rising either), and I could hear some sputtering (for lack of better descriptor). I pulled over, and the car sputtered, on the verge of dying. Usually at this point, I turn the car off, restart, and it's fine. But the sputtering in park continued, so I just kept going (needed to get to work). The car ran a little rough, but no more sputtering, and the CEL came on. Now for the scary part... the temp gauge started rising, the needle got to the top of the picture of the thermometer, then would go back down. It would go back up, mostly on uphills, (once or twice on flatland) and stay at that point (never higher) and when I started going downhill or flat, it would go back to normal. I know overheating and new headgaskets in the 2.5 can be good friends, so now i'm scared. Anybody have any ideas? any help will be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosDiosDeVerde86 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 well, you gotta get down to it's level. look at it right in the needle and with a stern finger say, "that's NOT ok. you WILL go back down temp. guage. If you do it again you're spending 3 days in the Naughty Garage." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosDiosDeVerde86 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 but seriously, sounds like hg or some kind of coolant leak. could be thermostat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Well, those symptoms that you describe sound AWFULLY familiar... (My HG swap was done at 165K miles). I feel for ya!:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 find out what CEL code was thrown and go from there. yes it could be HG, it could be something else. if it gave you a code, no point in ignoring good information and trying to guess what the problem is. keep your eye out for loss of coolant, leaking anywhere on or under the engine, coolant out the tail pipe on start up, bubbling in the overflow tank...etc. and keep your eye out on a good motor (also known as an EJ22). unless you want to pay the $ or do them yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 how much would an ej22 cost? I don't have the equipment to do a motor swap, or enough of the knowhow. I'm too scared to forget something. However, I would consider it if I knew that the engine swap would be feasible and economic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomson1355 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Look closely at the coolant in the overflow reservoir. Is it murky or does it have black crud floating in it? If yes, it's a HG sign. Is the level normal, or is it high? If it's high, and stays high as the car cools after use, it's a head gasket sign. Your symptoms could be any number of coolant issues, but with the 2.5 phase I, you should figure head gaskets unless you find something else, like a coolant leak that isn't from your reservoir overflowing. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Lets not jump the gun here. a HG job once its done its done as long as its done by a reputable shop. It is also cheaper then swapping engines, since it sounds like your not doing it yourself. Also since you did the right thing it sounds like, not bury the needle in the red zone, no real damage is done. First off, check the charging system voltage. a week altenator can cause the same symptons. Next make sure the cooling fans are opeating as they should. Pop the hood and examin the overflow tank. Is it full (bad) normal or empty. Is there scum inside the overflow. Next remove the raditor cap and see of you see alot of bubbles in th coolant. Its ok if the radiator has one huge bubble (thats when the thermostat opens up) but anything else is indicative of a HG. you can also get a kit to test for exhaust gas being present in the radiator. At 110K miles, personally i think it is foolish to swap an engine. If it was 180-200K i would have a different opinion. What year is this? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 It is also cheaper then swapping engines, 2.2's can be found for $150-$400. depending on installation charges it can be a few hundred less than the $1,100 or more for a proper head gasket job. it's not always possible, requires some work looking for a motor and isn't always the best option but it is an option. if it were my car i'd do the head gaskets and keep the 2.5 like nipper said. but i'd do them myself so expense would be limited. if a friend came to me wanting it done cheap i'd source them a motor for $250 and have it installed for around $300....well under a head gasket job. and you can source a 96 2.2 which would be non-interference. again...if cost were an issue it's just one of a few options. it's a 1996. hey, it's time for a valve adjustment anyway right nipper? good time to adjust the valves while doing a head gasket job on these motors, i think the valve adjustment on the 96 2.5's is a big job, do it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYeti Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Check your coolant. If it looks like THIS , you have a blown HG. BTW, that is my coolant looked like after we drained it for the engine swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Thanks for all the help, I'll give you all an update once I can get some time to check out the car today (i'm still at work). Assuming the car doesn't blow up on the way home, I should be able to get a better idea of what's going on from all the advice. One more thing... would it be better to drive home through stop and go traffic on side roads (stoplights, a bit longer drive), or take it at 55mph on the highway? or will it make any difference? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I'd take a couple gallons of water and the back road. If it got hot you could wait untill it cools and add water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 Well, no murky coolant in the overflow tank, looked like the radiator was normal, no leaking coolant anywhere, and the CEL is again reading a cylinder 4 misfire. I drove the car home on sideroads through town, and the temp gauge never went above the halfway mark. The car is in the shop right now, hopefully it acts up for them and the whole ordeal gets dealt with. I'll give an update about what (if anything) the shop finds. Until then, wish me luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 The shop couldn't get the outback to faulter once again. I opted to replace the injector for cylinder number 4, maybe that will take care of things. As for the head gasket, they found no signs of failure. I'll see how long it takes for problems to arise again (they usually hide for a week or so after the cars been in the shop). Keep an eye out for more of my posts... I'll be needing help before too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 how long has it been xince the cooling system has been serviced. t-stat,flush, new coolant, upper and lower hoses, and cap? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuki Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I really hate to say it, but here it goes. It sounds exactly like the same symptoms my '98 2.5GT was having and it was the head gasket. I was fortunate enough to get 200K+ out of my factory head gasket. fuki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 I just bought the car in January, and I'm unaware of any servicing on the coolant system. I did get a new timing belt, water pump, and some other servicing done a couple weeks ago... would that require flushing the system? If so, then the shop did it. If not... would you recommend servicing? How difficult is it to replace the t-stat, hoses and cap and much do they cost? I'll wait to see if there are any more quirks with the t-stat or temps over the next couple weeks, and if so... I may need some help with a coolant system servicing. Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 OK so you had the coolant replaced. Lets start with the simple one first. Replace the radiator cap (its probably tired). you can get that at any autoparts store. Sonce the car was serviced i am going to bet on the "marketing ability" of the mechanic. If you needed hoses he would have told you. Next time (if) the car gets real hot again, turn the heat on full blast, and see if your getting hot or cold air. So did the overheat happen before or after all the work was done, and if after how long after? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 The overheat was sporatic, and a one time event on my commute of about 25 miles. It happened about a week and a half after the timing belt service, and about a day after an oil change, and the mistake of a gas station attendant which left we with a tank full of premium 92 octane (instead of my normal 89 octane). The guys at the shop, my dad, and I haven't been able to get it to overheat since that event, and even during the overheat event, the needle was at about 10-11 o'clock (pretty far below the red in my opinion)-normally the needle is slightly below 9 o'clock. If the car over heats and i turn the heat on... if it blows cold what should i do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 The overheat was sporatic, and a one time event on my commute of about 25 miles. It happened about a week and a half after the timing belt service, and about a day after an oil change, and the mistake of a gas station attendant which left we with a tank full of premium 92 octane (instead of my normal 89 octane). The guys at the shop, my dad, and I haven't been able to get it to overheat since that event, and even during the overheat event, the needle was at about 10-11 o'clock (pretty far below the red in my opinion)-normally the needle is slightly below 9 o'clock. If the car over heats and i turn the heat on... if it blows cold what should i do? That will just give us more information on possible causes. It is starting to sound like you may of had an airbubble in the cooling system and it cleared itself up. This is a common thing to happen after having the cooling system drained. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosDiosDeVerde86 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 That will just give us more information on possible causes. It is starting to sound like you may of had an airbubble in the cooling system and it cleared itself up. This is a common thing to happen after having the cooling system drained. nipper well, common if you're not careful or dont know how to get the air out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 I just checked my service receipts, and I got a new t-stat with gasket during my timing belt service. On the way to work today, the tstat rose a tiny bit (barely noticeable to someone who is not paranoid like i am) for a mile or so, then I came to a stop, and it rose to about 10 o'clock, as i pulled from the stop, it lowered to it's normal level, and stayed there for the rest of the 15 miles. The air blew hot the whole time, and the car ran much better than usual... but i'm still weary of problems. The next week will be the true test of whether or not I'm in need of a HG, or if I've just been stressed to the max for something far less serious. Again, thanks for all the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I just checked my service receipts, and I got a new t-stat with gasket during my timing belt service.On the way to work today, the tstat rose a tiny bit (barely noticeable to someone who is not paranoid like i am) for a mile or so, then I came to a stop, and it rose to about 10 o'clock, as i pulled from the stop, it lowered to it's normal level, and stayed there for the rest of the 15 miles. The air blew hot the whole time, and the car ran much better than usual... but i'm still weary of problems. The next week will be the true test of whether or not I'm in need of a HG, or if I've just been stressed to the max for something far less serious. Again, thanks for all the help Are your cooling fans coming on? Alos next time it happens turn on the ac, this forces the fans on and see what happenes. When you have a bad HG you usually dont have heat, you may still have an air bubble in the system or cooling fans, or even a clogged radiator, the car is old enough. the top and bottom hoses should be the close to the same temp if the top os colder then the bottom you have a restricted radiator. nipper nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted May 8, 2006 Author Share Posted May 8, 2006 The tstat rose again, but came back down pretty quick. Air was blowing hot, and the cooling fans worked. The events seem to be bubbles, I was driving on gravel roads a bit before this most recent event, so maybe that stirred some loose? Should i take the car back in and make them bleed the coolant system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosDiosDeVerde86 Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 The tstat rose again, but came back down pretty quick. Air was blowing hot, and the cooling fans worked. The events seem to be bubbles, I was driving on gravel roads a bit before this most recent event, so maybe that stirred some loose? Should i take the car back in and make them bleed the coolant system? you dont need to take it back. here's what to do. 1) get some coolant. should be dexron II 2) with the engine cold, start the car 3) right after starting (still cold) remove the rad cap 4) stand in front of the car. the coolant will bubble. 5) every time it bubbles add more coolant. 6) keep an eye on the coolant overfill tank 7) fill rad with coolant until coolant in the coolant tank reaches the hot line or a little above. keep in mind that overfilling is not the end of the world. if there's too much it will drain itself from the overfill tank. 8) replace rad cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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