Hotshot Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Well, last weekend, my aunt decided to upgrade a little and bought a new '06 outback. I was lucky, and she felt sorry for me driving my '89 camry wagon, and gave me her old car, a '97 Outback Limited. There was one thing that I didnt like about though. It is horrible trying to turn it on pavement, I am guessing because of the AWD. Whenever I try to park it, it lurches, shakes, vibrates, and all sorts of other interesting sounds and movements. I hope that this isnt normal with AWD subarus while turning on pavement. Anyone have an answer? Edit: Pictures! Beside my old '89 camry wagon (255k miles) and with my dads truck in the background. The outback is getting up there too, at almost 200k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPX Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Here is some light reading on the problem typically called torque bind. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=41148&highlight=duty+solinoid+c http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51202&page=2 Your actual results may vary. But in my case, running with the FWD fuse (FWD only) during the dry season actually made my problem calm down when I took out the FWD fuse (AWD on) several months later. Doing 3 trans fluid drain and fills (not to be confused with Jiffy Lube flushes) has also helped some buy a lot more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 You have torque bind. 1- make sure all the tires are the same and all inflated 2- Pop the hood and put a fuse in the AWD holder. If the problem goes away you have torque bind (if it doesnt you have another bigger problem). 3- Go to jiffy lube or something and get the 99.00 tranny flush. Then go out and take the car for a few u turns, and 90% chance of it going away. This should be done anyway, and maybe so should the differnetials, but the tranny MUST be done. 4- Your subaru will love you. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Ok, thanks However, where is the FWD fuse located at? If torque bind is my problem, all I have to do to get rid of it is have my transmission flushed out and the tire pressures the same? Is there any advantage to having it in AWD over FWD? It seems like it would kill gas milage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 The FWD fuse holder is located in the engine bay, near the firewall by the passenger side.. all by itself. If your torque bind issue has not gotten too serious having your transmission and differential fluid clean and your tire TREAD DEPTH must be equal (as well as tire size) and PRESSURE must be per subaru's requirements (Should be on the drivers door jam tag.) 90% of the time this fixes torque bind. If it has gotten too severe you will need 600-1500 dollars worth of transmission work. It is better to be having it in AWD. The FWD fuse is for temporary use for diagnostics etc. It will not affect your gas mileage to any noticable amount. Put the FWD fuse in to see if your problems stop. If they do, you have torque bind. If you have torque bind do the above mentioned steps. It is not recommended to drive w/ the FWD fuse in for extended periods of time. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Thanks a lot, I will get started soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsmiths Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 DON'T go to 'Jiffy Lube' or any of their ilk. I'm no fan of stealerships, but AT is one of the things I would go to a Subaru dealer for. Too many horror stories with grease monkies screwing up 'Roos. I actually have our oil changes done at the dealer as well, It's within $2.00 of the quik-lube joints, I get trained techs and they wash the car to boot. Oh, and watch out for coolant changes too, if done incorrectly, you'll end up with an air-lock, and be on the first step of the slippery slope to HG hell. Now that I've scared the bejezuz outta ya , go enjoy your ''new' Subaru. Oh, and get back to us when you can't figger out why your parking lights stay on ... and we'll explain the 'virgin switch' to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 nahhh jiffy can do a tranny flush and an oil change if watched. Not everyone has a dealership nearby for an oil change, and im not one to sit around a couple of ours to get one. It was quicker to let htem flush the tranny then me doing the rampo thing three times in a row, then there was the isuue of putting the fluid in a container and taking it to station to be recycled. The only thing you really need to watch is tire pressure. They go by the pressure for the original tires, not the tires that are on the car now. Dont let them play with tire pressure and you will be fine. Dont do the radiator service as you can do that yourself. BTW last time i went to a dealer for an oil change, they never changed the filter, so they can be screwed up too. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 For minor stuff like oil changes, my family owns a nursery, and a full garage with it, so I just send it to them, with instructions occasionally if something needs to be done out of the ordinary. If it turns out the tranny needs to be worked on after I try all the little tidbits that were given to me here, I will take it to the local dealer. Yeah, I have already found that particular switch, and got out the manual when I couldnt figure out what it was. There were also a couple of threads around on different forums. I can see why it would be a problem if you accidently turned it on and didnt know where it was. Great, now I have to fiugre out the right way to change the coolant, and figure out why I dont want an air-lock, and what HG hell is. Untill then, I will be happy to just be able to turn this thing. As of right now, it is basically stock. Anything that I should do it? I have seen a lot of people removing the intake silencer, and thought about doing that to mine. Any pros or cons to it that I wouldnt know about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 and figure out why I dont want an air-lock, and what HG hell is. You don't want air pockets in your coolant system because they create a nice little pocket of heat for your HG (headgasket) to begin its first trip to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Great, now I have to fiugre out the right way to change the coolant, and figure out why I dont want an air-lock, and what HG hell is. Air-lock is when you get air in your cooling system, and it can cause trouble with the flow of coolant. This willl cause your car to overheat, causing a leak in an already fragile headgasket. I say fragile because the original headgasket used in these years (95-99 DOHC 2.5L) was not up to the standard that Subaru is generally known for. They have since come out with an upgraded headgasket that is far better. 99% of the time, replacing the headgasket with the new version solves the headgasket problem that these cars are infamous for. There is a fairly large volume of information on this here. Do a search on Head Gasket and you will be rewarded with a large supply of reading material regarding the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 I can understand about the 2.5 engine not being the best, because my aunt actually blew it two years ago, so the engine is relatively new. I dont know if it is the same type with the same issues though. Any way I can check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 13, 2006 Author Share Posted May 13, 2006 I just got the outback back from getting the oil changed, and I checked the tires for wear. 3 of them are starting to get near the end of their life, but the left rear looks almost new. Would that be enough to cause the torque bind problems I have been having? For some reason I cant get the FWD to work. I put the fuse in the FWD box under the hood, but the light doesnt come on, and it doesnt feel any different. Anything I can do about that? As it is, I think I will be taking it to the dealer on monday after school to have them go over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Yes that would be enough to cook the AWD clutches but what it sounds like to me is you have one of two possabilites. One is that your duty C solenoid is dead. If the solenoid cant energize you will always have a 50/50 split (unless the clutches are fried). Check to see if you are missing or have a burned out bulb in the dash where the tranny temp light is. That is usually flashing a code if the solenoid is dead. Check for loose electrical connections under the car by the tranny and under the hood on the pass side. My gut tells me from the mismatched tires, you have a fried AWD unit. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 you can change the tranny fluid yourself, really easy, get a large drain pan, pull the dipstick, unplug the tranny pan, and drain the fluid out.. plug it up again, put some more fluid in via the dip stick hole (a funnel w/ a big end thingy works best). just fill her up till the full mark.. drive around for a while, go into a parking lot... do some circles etc... change the fluid again.. do it say 3 times or until the fluid comes out red..... you should be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 you can change the tranny fluid yourself, really easy, get a large drain pan, pull the dipstick, unplug the tranny pan, and drain the fluid out.. plug it up again, put some more fluid in via the dip stick hole (a funnel w/ a big end thingy works best). just fill her up till the full mark.. drive around for a while, go into a parking lot... do some circles etc... change the fluid again.. do it say 3 times or until the fluid comes out red..... you should be good. i'm usually the first one to say just change the fluid, but when the fuse doesnt make a differnce, means either the solenoid is dead, or the clutches are fused together nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 Sounds pretty bad... If the clutches were just fused together, wouldnt that just be a mechanical problem, still allowing the FWD light to come on? When the car is turned on, the AT OIL TEMP light blinks a few times and then turns off, but I thought that was normal. The check engine light is also on, but it figured that was just a bad O2 sensor or something of that nature, because it has plenty of fluid and runs great. I will try and change the tranny fluid a couple of times tomorrow if I can, and then take it to the dealer on monday to see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Sounds pretty bad... If the clutches were just fused together, wouldnt that just be a mechanical problem, still allowing the FWD light to come on? When the car is turned on, the AT OIL TEMP light blinks a few times and then turns off, but I thought that was normal. The check engine light is also on, but it figured that was just a bad O2 sensor or something of that nature, because it has plenty of fluid and runs great. I will try and change the tranny fluid a couple of times tomorrow if I can, and then take it to the dealer on monday to see what they say. AHA! Blinky light usually means the duty C solenoid is dead. Depending for how long the clutches can be fried too. The AWD clutches are designed to tolerate slip to a point (like going through turns). But if they are always slipping all the time, they will over heat and fuse together. Also the duty C solenoid dumps peressure from the clutch pack. IF it cant do that the clutches are applied at full force, again with the same results. i wouldnt change the tranny fluid till the blinky light is resolved, as it may just be a waste of money. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 I also had a friend of mine tell me that if it was the clutches going, the transmission fluid would appear to be brown instead of red from it burning, and it would feel gritty to the touch from the bits of clutch floating in it. Ill try that in a while to see. I am also guessing that it would be a good idea to switch back to the camry wagon as a daily driver untill I can get these issues resolved? As for wasting money, a few quarts of transmisison fluid isnt going to be anything compared to replacing the solinoid/clutches. edit- and tires... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 ? As for wasting money, a few quarts of transmisison fluid isnt going to be anything compared to replacing the solinoid/clutches. edit- and tires... its more then a few quarts. not to mention the labor of doing it the right way. Being a sort of expert on these things, you need to get the tires first, then take the tranny to the dealer and let him give you the bad news (c solenoid) or worse news (clutches). nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 If I feel sick at the price the stealership gives me tomorrow, and the clutches are still usable, would it be feasible for me to replace the duty c solenoid myself? Once again, I do have full access to a garage with everything that I could possibly need, and the expertise of everyone here. Can anyone here give me an approximation on the expected price, or a location where I could get one online? I suppose I could always go and look in the nearest junkyard to see if I can come across one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Just got back from the dealer today... 900$+ tires if the clutches arnt fused together or the clutch case isnt beat to hell. Dont even want to think about it if it is, but from what the dealer said, it isnt very advanced. Thanks to everyone here that posted for their guidance on this. As soon as I began to tell the tech there the symptoms, the first two words out of his mouth were "Torque Bind" When I told him that the solenoid was dead and the clutches were iffy, he agreed and said that I had been doing my homework on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bepa Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Just got back from the dealer today... 900$+ tires if the clutches arnt fused together or the clutch case isnt beat to hell. Dont even want to think about it if it is, but from what the dealer said, it isnt very advanced. Thanks to everyone here that posted for their guidance on this. As soon as I began to tell the tech there the symptoms, the first two words out of his mouth were "Torque Bind" When I told him that the solenoid was dead and the clutches were iffy, he agreed and said that I had been doing my homework on it. just repalced a tranny in a turbo SS, bid on ebay cost 339 dollars with freight and is working pretty good if you please. in your case it is most likely a n/a unit. it should be a little less for yours. put it in with a friend of mine. not a hard job. be careful with the linkage and you should be okay. be well and be careful. subaru what to drive. Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotshot Posted May 19, 2006 Author Share Posted May 19, 2006 just repalced a tranny in a turbo SS, bid on ebay cost 339 dollars with freight and is working pretty good if you please. in your case it is most likely a n/a unit. it should be a little less for yours. put it in with a friend of mine. not a hard job. be careful with the linkage and you should be okay. be well and be careful. subaru what to drive. Daniel. If I was more mechanically inclined and had a little more experience and time, I would have considered doing it myself. I just got the car back today, and the cost for the parts was just a little less than the tranny you got, but they charged 2x that in labor. Runs great now though, and I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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