sunflowersubaru Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 1987 Subaru GL 4WD Wagon. 4-cylinder carb. motor. 5 spd. 180,000 miles. New carb from Subaru dealer in '02. Had rough idle, runing issues last year until anti-backfire valve replaced. Shop also replaced fuel bowl inlet valve and float at that time as gas was pouring into engine. Mostly fine when I got it back at that time, but the engine did have some some roughness during idle that was not present before the shops started screwing with the carb. Lately, replaced plugs and wires, and also cleaned up rotor and dist. cap. At present, can't start or keep it started. Fires up, but dies out just as quick. Had it running a couple of weeks ago. Took it out for a drive, but it stalled out when I pushed the accelerator pedal to get up the driveway from a standing still stop. Wouldn't start easily. Did get it started up enough to get the car up the drive. Car has been parked since. Did spray fast start around carb base, hoses, etc. to test for vacuum leak. No change in engine operation. Ran idle mixture screw in and then out. Starved engine at less than a full turn. Past 4 full turns there is no change in idle. Also isolated new anti-backfire valve to ensure it was working - plugged supply and sensor hoses. No affect. Dealer in my area won't touch it because based on my description they think it is the carb and they don't have a carb expert in their shop. Thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Not Subbin' at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Have you checked the fuel pressure or checked to see if the fuel filter is clogged? I would replace the filter if that hasn't been done. If that doesn't solve the problem then check the fuel pressure. The pump may be ready for replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 check timing. How about your timing belts? There are two, and the passenger side could break and the engine would run, just rough. Does it "rock" back and forth pretty hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 when were the fuel filters done last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowersubaru Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 Have you checked the fuel pressure or checked to see if the fuel filter is clogged? I would replace the filter if that hasn't been done. If that doesn't solve the problem then check the fuel pressure. The pump may be ready for replacement. New filter a month ago. No change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I suppose there may be a power problem to the fuel pump. If that checks out ok then it may be time to replace the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowersubaru Posted May 20, 2006 Author Share Posted May 20, 2006 check timing. How about your timing belts? There are two, and the passenger side could break and the engine would run, just rough. Does it "rock" back and forth pretty hard? Checked timing. Pardon my phrasing here.....4 bars below 20. From maintenance manual looks like 8 degrees BTDC if 20 is TDC. Doesn't rock back and forth. Runs rough, struggles until chock opens. Was 50 F in am and 96 F in pm here on Friday. Engine ran rough/struggled at idle until choke opened while starting in the morning, but popped off an ran smooth while starting at the end of the work day. Something screwed up with the choke system? Fuel filter changed last week. Pump????? Drove about 150 miles so far since fuel filter change. Dealer did not want to seel me a pump - they said that when they go out they go out, they don't start to go out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowersubaru Posted May 20, 2006 Author Share Posted May 20, 2006 when were the fuel filters done last? Changed fuel filter again last week. Put about 150 miles on it since then. Engine roughs rough/struggles at idle until engine warms up and choke system off. Was 50 F in am and 96 F in pm yesterday. Engine ran rough/struggled while starting in the morning, but popped off straight away while starting at the end of the work day. Dealer would not sell me a pump. Said that they when they go out, they go out, not start to go out. Something wrong with choke system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowersubaru Posted May 20, 2006 Author Share Posted May 20, 2006 check timing. How about your timing belts? There are two, and the passenger side could break and the engine would run, just rough. Does it "rock" back and forth pretty hard? Has the front oil seals, oil pump and timing belts replaced this past winter. Car ran okay afterwards. Will ask dealer to check them next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowersubaru Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 Success at last... My Subaru is now finally up and running after several weeks of trouble shooting and visits to the shop. Here is a brief summary. Went throught all the vacuum lines and replaced those that failed. Be careful here as several lines have orifices in them. In this execise also found that the two vacuum advance lines that split off the single line from the distributor were in the wrong place. On line with check valve goes to the below-the-throttle-valve and the other above-the-throttle valve passage ways. Also found that someone had pressed a stainless steel ball into the below-the-throttle-valve vacuum advance passage way on the underside of the fuel chamber. Now have proper vacuum advance after having removed the ball. Noted variation in level of fuel in fuel chamber on several opening of the carb. so..... Disconnected fuel delivery line and directed into jug on ground. Ran car in place until it stalled out. Refilled fuel chamber via the fuel inlet hose barb with a rubber syringe. Ran car. Did this twice and no gas in jug either time. Disconnected fuel pump power supply and put a volt meter across conector. Refilled fuel chamber and ran car again until it stalled out. Had 12 volts on the meter. Reconnected fuel pump power circuit, filled fuel chamber and ran car again. No gas in jug. Did this again two more time and there was gas in the jug both times. Note at this point that alternator belt broke a while back and was replaced and car was hard to start during this diagnostic. Had alternator and battery checked - alternator marginal. Replaced both alternator and fuel pump. Car now starts and runs like it should! No hard starts, no stalling, no crap! Another problem addressed during all of this - Moisture in headlights - this GL has two headlight assemblies. Removed assemblies, dried their insides by fishing paper towel around inside with a rod and then ran a generous bead of silicone caulking around the perimiter of the assembly where the glass and the metal frame meet. A little moisture returned after 2 days so I dried them again with the assemblies in place. No moisture returned after 2 days so I assumed that the caulking hadn't yet cured and that there might have been moisture within when I re-installed the assemblies. Important to not let this problem continue as the metal surface inside the assembly at the glass-steel interface will rust and the silver coating will peal. Loss of coating means no reflectance. An installed cost of $200 per assembly is motivation enough to stay on top of this from here on out. Thanks to all for the help that I have gleaned from the discussions of everyone elses problems. Hope to spare others from the misery I've experienced these past several weeks. Happy Subaruing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 nice post, that was a thorough but concise explanation of your problem and the solution, as well as how you found it. you might want to edit the original subject to include brief model description, for benefit of people searching.. if nothing else it served as EXCELLENT inspiration to just take the carb apart and look at it, compared to schematic. if you get diagrams, you can figure a carburetor out. anyone here trying to fix their cars can probably do so, it was once considered the presumed skill level of the shadetree mechanic... but those were also two phantom problems that you pointed out, as potential examples for others having difficulties too. the fuel pump has been mentioned before, but you never know when a previous owner (or carb rebuild?) is gonna give you a gift like a steel ball in the vacuum advance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowersubaru Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 Good idea. 1987 Subaru GL Wagon 4WD, 1.8 L, 5-speed, Hitachi carb. Had the benefit of a complete set of Subaru shop manuals that I purchased in 1991 when I bought the car with 40,000 miles....and a lot of determination to find out just what the sam hill was wrong. Certainly helped to keep me from being 1000% at the mercy of shop mechanics who didn't know or didn't care to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowersubaru Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 08-10-2006, 05:28 AM daeron USMB is life! Join Date: May 2006 City: West Palm Beach State: Florida Age: 25 Posts: 215 iTrader: (0) Vehicles: 1987 GL-10 N/A Auto Re: Can't Get It Started -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- nice post, that was a thorough but concise explanation of your problem and the solution, as well as how you found it. you might want to edit the original subject to include brief model description, for benefit of people searching.. if nothing else it served as EXCELLENT inspiration to just take the carb apart and look at it, compared to schematic. if you get diagrams, you can figure a carburetor out. anyone here trying to fix their cars can probably do so, it was once considered the presumed skill level of the shadetree mechanic... but those were also two phantom problems that you pointed out, as potential examples for others having difficulties too. the fuel pump has been mentioned before, but you never know when a previous owner (or carb rebuild?) is gonna give you a gift like a steel ball in the vacuum advance... On input from daeron above, my car is a 1987 GL Subaru 4WD Wagon, 1.8 L, 5-speed. If you can borrow or afford to buy, OEM shop manuals are the way to go for those of us like me who keep their cars forever. Had same for my earlier 1964 Chevy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowersubaru Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 08-10-2006, 05:28 AM daeron USMB is life! Join Date: May 2006 City: West Palm Beach State: Florida Age: 25 Posts: 215 iTrader: (0) Vehicles: 1987 GL-10 N/A Auto Re: Can't Get It Started -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- nice post, that was a thorough but concise explanation of your problem and the solution, as well as how you found it. you might want to edit the original subject to include brief model description, for benefit of people searching.. if nothing else it served as EXCELLENT inspiration to just take the carb apart and look at it, compared to schematic. if you get diagrams, you can figure a carburetor out. anyone here trying to fix their cars can probably do so, it was once considered the presumed skill level of the shadetree mechanic... but those were also two phantom problems that you pointed out, as potential examples for others having difficulties too. the fuel pump has been mentioned before, but you never know when a previous owner (or carb rebuild?) is gonna give you a gift like a steel ball in the vacuum advance... On input from daeron above, my car is a 1987 GL Subaru 4WD Wagon, 1.8 L, 5-speed. If you can borrow or afford to buy, OEM shop manuals are the way to go for those of us like me who keep their cars forever. Had same for my earlier 1964 Chevy. If nothing else, do an advanced search on user name sunflowersubaru in the Older Generation Forum. Happy Subbin'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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