electryc_monk Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Okay, did a few searches first...found nothing. i don't recall the torque converter shaft sticking out sooo far. Nor did i ever see a outer shaft come out of the tranny with the torqueconverter... well this one just did. backing up in the time line: upon reinstalling engine the torqueconverter didn't 'look right' it didn't look like it was fully flush against the tranny housing... it was sitting out about 1 inch to far out. This was proven correct when we set the starter in its hole and , low and behold the shaft didn't even come close the closeness of the teeth on the torqueconverter. I can't get it to slide all the way in..... (no hammers used yet...) looking at the FSM and it seems to be the pumpshaft(?). I'd even go so far as to say that a small stub of the outermost piece of that shaft for the tranny-oil pump is still stuck to the mouth of the torqueconverter. I'd even bet that it is supposed to stay in the tranny? So when we used the engine craine and hoisted the engine free and clear of the tranny it may have slightly pulled the torqueconverter and that section of shaft out - when it shouldn't of? ========================================================= after thinking and rereading what i wrote, lets try this again. did a search. looked in the FSM, think the Torqueconverter (TC from now on) has a small section of what the FSM calls an oil pump shaft, its stuck in the mouth of the TC. Looking at a TC in a 2.2 sitting in the garage and its mouth is not as tall as this piece. I have yet to put a messuring tape to it but i shall. the removal with the engine craine went beutifully and smoothly, intensionally slow. There was a little tussle with the lower studs getting caught around the base of the TC initially but we lowered it and up she came. when we went to reinstall the engine the bell housings didn't go all the way together. Removed engine from bay once again and discovered that the TC didn't seem to sit flush against the tranny's bell mouth backside. Somuich so that the starter didn't come close enough to touch the teeth if engaged. IIRC in the retracted position the starter teeth are mearly 1/4 to 1/2 inch away. Currently they were almost 2 inches away. so when i removed the TC the outter shaft came out to. IT was a length of 10-11 inches. i think we're in deep kimshee.. what do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 You just need to take the convertor off and pull that stub out and twist it a little and push it in, semi-hard (don't use any hitting tools ) It'll go in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Perfectly normal for that shaft to come out. It will all go back togather but you have to have patience. Keep trying until everthing lines up. Don't use a hammer and don't use the bellhousing bolts to "pull it togather". Use force and you will break the internal pump and then you are up the river. Once you have it all seated use a section of wire across the TC to preent it from moving forward when installing the transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Ditto the slow and patient. No force beyond hand turning and tapping. You have several shafts that need to line up and seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 this is a common issue, there are other threads here about this that might help you out. most of them have been successful in some way or another, so that old input may help if you're still stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electryc_monk Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 still stuck is the operative phrase... what search terms should i use? I've tried 4EAT 4EAT auto tranny 4EAT transmission 4EAT problem(?) we have two days before the city will be droping by to get this car up and running again. or at least that'smy concern as the city code enforcement dropped by with a nasty gram in the mail onsaturday and well, we'd like to have her "fully operational before the 18th. back at it. thanks ya'll this is a common issue, there are other threads here about this that might help you out. most of them have been successful in some way or another, so that old input may help if you're still stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 the information in this thread isn't helping you? what doesn't make sense? scroll to the bottom of this page and look to the bottom left corner, you'll see links to threads with similar topics already down there. click on those and have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electryc_monk Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 (slaps forehead reallly hard) "OH GAWD!" i rarely if ever scroll all the way down. SHEEESH....... I didn't realize-..... (paused) went and read... (paused togo back out side).... Yurika!!!!!! the actual problem was the center input shaft...*IT* was out about 3/4 of an inch too far.... it finally went in and now we are focused on having two subies operational by the end of the day. Okami's Brat restoration/conversion after his roll over and the blue wagon with this 4EAT fun.... Thank you so very Much Guys. (heads back to the garage) the information in this thread isn't helping you? what doesn't make sense? scroll to the bottom of this page and look to the bottom left corner, you'll see links to threads with similar topics already down there. click on those and have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 i didn't know about that little section at the bottom until forever either. i still forget about it sometimes. good news figuring it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanos100 Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Don't Panic! Just had the same thing happen to me...very annoying! What happened to you (and to me) was that the lower studs pulled the Torque converter out slightly...about half an inch...and the inner shaft came allong with it. Here's the fix: If you can't push on the Torque converter, and set it back...then take the torque converter off. You'll see a splined shaft, with an inner splined shaft. The inner splined shaft has to be loose, and go back in about a half an inch. If you can't push it in (I couldn't push mine in) it's hammer time. I whacked the ************ out of mine, while turning it, with a three pound machinist's hammer. It got loose, and the TC fit and the engine fit, and the car runs fine. And that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Stewart Okay, did a few searches first...found nothing. i don't recall the torque converter shaft sticking out sooo far. Nor did i ever see a outer shaft come out of the tranny with the torqueconverter... well this one just did. backing up in the time line: upon reinstalling engine the torqueconverter didn't 'look right' it didn't look like it was fully flush against the tranny housing... it was sitting out about 1 inch to far out. This was proven correct when we set the starter in its hole and , low and behold the shaft didn't even come close the closeness of the teeth on the torqueconverter. I can't get it to slide all the way in..... (no hammers used yet...) looking at the FSM and it seems to be the pumpshaft(?). I'd even go so far as to say that a small stub of the outermost piece of that shaft for the tranny-oil pump is still stuck to the mouth of the torqueconverter. I'd even bet that it is supposed to stay in the tranny? So when we used the engine craine and hoisted the engine free and clear of the tranny it may have slightly pulled the torqueconverter and that section of shaft out - when it shouldn't of? ========================================================= after thinking and rereading what i wrote, lets try this again. did a search. looked in the FSM, think the Torqueconverter (TC from now on) has a small section of what the FSM calls an oil pump shaft, its stuck in the mouth of the TC. Looking at a TC in a 2.2 sitting in the garage and its mouth is not as tall as this piece. I have yet to put a messuring tape to it but i shall. the removal with the engine craine went beutifully and smoothly, intensionally slow. There was a little tussle with the lower studs getting caught around the base of the TC initially but we lowered it and up she came. when we went to reinstall the engine the bell housings didn't go all the way together. Removed engine from bay once again and discovered that the TC didn't seem to sit flush against the tranny's bell mouth backside. Somuich so that the starter didn't come close enough to touch the teeth if engaged. IIRC in the retracted position the starter teeth are mearly 1/4 to 1/2 inch away. Currently they were almost 2 inches away. so when i removed the TC the outter shaft came out to. IT was a length of 10-11 inches. i think we're in deep kimshee.. what do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electryc_monk Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 OKAY here we have the facts ... itstarted upsmooothlyand idled great... stilldoes. ooops hird a girgle then a hissing sound...discovered the oil feed line to the turbo was on loosely. /tightened it up good and safely torqued added oil lost to the kitty litter. started her up again... still idled good and smooth-nice and quiet...welllmostly anywho.... after a little while looked under again..oh crap! uhhhh (slaps forehead) the oil drain tube from turbo wasn't 100% plumbed into the drain pipe off the turbo.... result.... slow gravity pour of yet another 2.5 qt'sto the kittylitter... letengine cool and went to figure out the vaccum lines on the brat resurection.... fixed? them i guess. went back to the turbo wagon... fixed the hose now that its cooled down...added oil and away we go.... huh now we have white smoke and moist air exiting exhaust.... shut down to look at oil. (scratches head) oil is still clean and pristine.waterlevel still seems fine... today i washed it and let it idle was washing and it still produces a continuous breath of water and white smoke... it did tapper off for a while then came back.... especially when it rev'd to 4000rpms. heres the thing the oil is still great and it still idles really smoothly. there is no discernible "miss"orweekness of engine when reving or at idle. its still super smooth. the gas is over 3 months old and it has taken a slight tap of the foot to get it to start while cranking it two different times. almost every time the qauntity of seconds needed for ignition contact to release of the key was about 2-4 seconds; except those two times i needed to bearlytap the gas peddle. what i'm curious about is: a.) could there be so much water and oil crud sitting in the exhaust system from when the headgasket blew last time that its taken all this time to drain it of the fluid from the heat of the exhaust and rev'ing to force(slowly) the liquids and goup out of the tailpipe? b. Mike and Beth wonder *IF* it could be the possible gaskets that had failed somewhere like the intake? [ mythought is that itcan'tbe the intake gasket gone bad as that would not allow the engine to idle and then it'd eventually die from fowled plugs and soaked cylinders... which would wash-eventually into the crancase oil. right?] c. then you have the possibilty of the headgasket not sealed totally and one of the water jacket ports seaping into the combustion chamber. [ thentalking to self here: then you'd get fluidic wash into the crank case eventually and rough idle and hard starting.] d. the next possible idea was possed by Mike; what about the turbo, the gasket on it or a seal allowing water to be pumped out the exhaustpipe. [this is the one area that I am very curious about, the coolant and oil passages are so close then i'd think there would be a compremise there and thus 'chocolatemilk in the crank case as well? or not? beth just called that she found a bit of thread stuff on "turbo water passage issue" in a archived thread toooo??? it also never got above the 4th baron temp sensor. man I've really been away from subies to long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I repaired a HG on an '87 wagon (non-turbo) that smoked badly for quite a while after the repair. It really pumped out if I reved it. The smoke was all white, maybe a tiny bit of blue (I think). Eventually it stopped smoking once everything was burned off, and has run fine since. and yes, it did sort of freak me out until it finally stopped smoking ymmv -Dave (ps, cylinder 3 blew, for those keeping track) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electryc_monk Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 well this is great to know. Reassuringly so. As we drove it around the yard and left it idle for 20 minutes ; then idle again for nearly 30 minutes the smoke was getting *noticably* less so...looks like we have the same luck as you[hooziewhatsit] just described. Gary (sheepish grin) btw, thanks for the thread in xt6 on the sanding of the strut tubes and repainting them.... we shall see as it goes next few days once its tagged and bagged and ready for the road "Legally speaking".... I repaired a HG on an '87 wagon (non-turbo) that smoked badly for quite a while after the repair. It really pumped out if I reved it. The smoke was all white, maybe a tiny bit of blue (I think). Eventually it stopped smoking once everything was burned off, and has run fine since. and yes, it did sort of freak me out until it finally stopped smoking ymmv -Dave (ps, cylinder 3 blew, for those keeping track) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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