Jutboy Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 I've read a lot on your forums about addressing torque bind but when I brought my car in to get checked at the stealership they said I bad "transfer clutches" what the hell is the difference and could he really tell in 20 minutes that they were bad? Thanks a lot - Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutboy Posted May 26, 2006 Author Share Posted May 26, 2006 could someone possibly post a picture of a good one and a burnt one? I realize I'm lucky if I get this. Also if they are burnt can I just clean them good and get a new gasket or do I have to replace them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 I've read a lot on your forums about addressing torque bind but when I brought my car in to get checked at the stealership they said I bad "transfer clutches" what the hell is the difference and could he really tell in 20 minutes that they were bad? Thanks a lot - Justin i'm not sure about the term transfer clutch, may be the real name or a hold over from the big 4x4s. the rear end of the a/trans has a computer controled clutch that send power to the rear wheels when the front wheels spin. torque bind is the rear wheels locked, always powered. 2 causes, 1.bad duty c solenoid, 2. diry build up in vale seat of duty c solenoid. bad cases of tporque bind need new clutches, $950; lessor problem can be solved by flushing the trans fluid ($125) or replacing the duty c ($50 part plus 3 or 4 hours labor). the 95 is likely to have the dirty build up, if the clutch is not bad , flushing may help. the 98 should have the corrected trans. does your A/T TEMP light come on and flash at you when you start the car.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 $50 part and 3-4 hours labour!!? The Subaru dealership quoted me $250 for the selenoid and 6 hours ($575) labour to change out mine in Edmonton, Canada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibumm100 Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 My 98 Legacy GT w/AT was binding up bad and I thought I had fried the clutches. It felt like the tranny was going to fall out when you made a tight, low-speed turn. When I put a fuse in the FWD socket under the hood the binding disappeared. All I needed to do to fix the problem was change the AT fluid a couple of times. I also Seafoamed the AT and ran it for a couple days, drained and filled again and added some LubeGard. It's been running a couple months now without any binding....lesson learned, change the ATF regularly. Hope your problem is as easy to fix as mine was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I've read a lot on your forums about addressing torque bind but when I brought my car in to get checked at the stealership they said I bad "transfer clutches" what the hell is the difference and could he really tell in 20 minutes that they were bad? Thanks a lot - Justin Sheesh cant i even go to a BBQ The subaru automatic trany awd is a simple system with a complicated puter. The front and rear axles turn at differnt speeds on curve. SInce there is this speed, there has to be some way of allowing it to happen. In the manual its done with a differnetial and a viscous coupling. With the automayic there is a clutch pakc, almost like whats in the trany to shift gears. Normally slippage is bad for the clutch pack, but the awd pack is designed to allow for some slippage (20% speed differnce between front and rear. The duty c solenoid controls the amount of torque split (along with a spool valve), from 10/90 to 50/50. Torque bind ocures when the clutches get fried or the solenoid fails. ALso having mis matched tires or uinder inflated tires can cause this to happen too. Once the clurches are fried, weather or not the solenoid is good, you have torque bind. Torque bind can be determined in less then 30 seconds, so in 20 minutes they were thourough and prbbly took tranny pressure readings. Torque bind is when this slip no longer happens. It can make the car dangerous on curves on slick roads. You can feel the bind on tight turns at low speed when it first starts happening. Usually if it just started a tranny flush will fix it. If it is due to a solenoid failure or mis matched tires, nothing will help. I just had my awd system rebuilt for 875.00 at the dealer. My Solenoid went, that plus 185,000 miles, it was time. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutboy Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 Thanks everyone.....I changed the autotranny fluid twice (the first time using the seafoam tranny fluid)...I also changed the front/rear diff fluid and rotated+properly inflated the tires. It goes 90% and only has a little bit of a grind at the furthers angle you can turn the steering wheel, back off a half and inch and its perfect. I assume as long as I don't go all the way I can just leave it at that? Also, how can you tell if someone has torque bind in 30 seconds, drive the car? I was wondering how you can see if they need to have the clutches replaced? Thanks for all the help- Justin!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 you bought time. The fact that you grind still is not a good thing. Start saving money. Torque bind is very easy to tell. you make a tight turn both forward and reverse, the car should be able to do it without you pushing the pedal, or lightly pushing it. If the TB is heavy, the car wont go without alot of pressure on the gas pedal. Also the car will sort of lurch while making that turn. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Just out of curiosity, isnt the front diff fluid from carried in the trans, and which side is diff fluid, on the tranny when looking from the front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Just out of curiosity, isnt the front diff fluid from carried in the trans, and which side is diff fluid, on the tranny when looking from the front? huh? differntial lubricant is in the differntial. Transmission fluid is in the trannny and awd unit in the automatic. is that what you meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 What i mean is, isnt the front differential hooked up to the tranny? and is there a plug at the bottom to change the diff fluid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 What i mean is, isnt the front differential hooked up to the tranny? and is there a plug at the bottom to change the diff fluid? if its not you dont go anywhere. The differntial body is part pf the tranny case. Yes there is a plug, and a dipstick (on some i think ) nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 O because i see two dipsticks, so one is for the diff right, and one for tranny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 O because i see two dipsticks, so one is for the diff right, and one for tranny? yeppers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 my 95 leg l sedan had minor TB for 90k miles, i didn't know it was bad. i'd never owned a 4wd and thought it was standard... so i just didn''t turn that sharpand did'nt over stress the trans. but the trans finally failed. i didn't even know enough to take it to a shop!!! "poor dumb thing" i wonder if the changes they made in the mid 96 trans (?) eliminated this 'little bit' of TB? if it were my car, knowing what i do now, i'd plan on buying a used 97 trans, or atleast a used 97 clutch pack and have it on hand when needed. Thanks everyone.....I changed the autotranny fluid twice (the first time using the seafoam tranny fluid)...I also changed the front/rear diff fluid and rotated+properly inflated the tires. It goes 90% and only has a little bit of a grind at the furthers angle you can turn the steering wheel, back off a half and inch and its perfect. I assume as long as I don't go all the way I can just leave it at that? Also, how can you tell if someone has torque bind in 30 seconds, drive the car? I was wondering how you can see if they need to have the clutches replaced? Thanks for all the help- Justin!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 my 95 leg l sedan had minor TB for 90k miles, i didn't know it was bad. i'd never owned a 4wd and thought it was standard... so i just didn''t turn that sharpand did'nt over stress the trans. but the trans finally failed. i didn't even know enough to take it to a shop!!! "poor dumb thing" i wonder if the changes they made in the mid 96 trans (?) eliminated this 'little bit' of TB? if it were my car, knowing what i do now, i'd plan on buying a used 97 trans, or atleast a used 97 clutch pack and have it on hand when needed. 1997 1/2 was the design change. But also realize that things do break as they get older. my awd went out at 185,000 miles. Thats just age. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh56 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Nipper, it sounds like you're on top of the VC issue with 5-speeds. I have read elsewhere on the forum that the tranny issues happen less often on standards. Is that maybe because there are more automatics on the road? I ask because I've now had two in a row! Am I just cursed? First, I had a one-owner '99 Outback Wagon where the VCU went after 80k miles. The dealer quoted me $2k to fix it! So, I handed him the keys (literally) and they put me in a 2000 Outback Wagon with 70k after having had the other one for only 6 months. At just about 80k, guess what? The dealer had told me the problem was not common and that the '99 was "just a lemon". Oh, really? I just got 3 quotes from tranny guys and they all say about $1200 to do the job because the tranny has to be completely removed to replace the VCU/clutches etc. and they figure a day's labor plus about $600 for the part. Does this sound reasonable? Also, since I keep my cars, should I plan on this happening after 80k miles again? Funny thing (only I'm not laughing!) is that I have a '96 Outback 5-speed with 269k miles and have NEVER touched the tranny! Apparently Subaru decided to make the standards worse instead of better. Put an unserviceable unit INSIDE the tranny--yeah, that makes sense. My 2000 is already costing me more to repair than the '96! Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 see the problem is you dont know the tire history on the car. The peoblem shows up more on automatics, beut on an automatice there are things you can do to correct it. Also the automatic is a bit more foregiving, since you can disable the awd. Also the automatic system is deisgned for some slippage. The manual has a simplier but far more complicated (parts wise) system. The manual is not forgiving at all. There have been posters on here driving on a low tire for 20 miles and frying the viscous coupling. If ever a car needed a tire pressure monitor this is it. Unfortunitly you dont know the history of the car, and the dealer on the 1999 gave you an extreemly high figure, i think its the same cost to fix the manual as an automatic. the dealer wanted to make a sale. The 1999 had some problems but this was not one of them. All the (manual) trannies are the same pretty much in the way they operate., just they are very sensative to low tires, mis matched tires, or flats. Part of the probelm is the design of the vss and where it is. They use an open diff. The problem with a diff is that if you hold one wheel, the other wheel turns twice as fast. What seems like is a minor speed differnce is actually twice as fast, so the VC sees alot more heat then we realize. i would go someplace else for the repair. Also i would *************** at the dealer just too see what happens. i dont know if the wear on the VC is culmalitive, meaning if somone drove on a flat someplace in the cars life, if that starts a slippery slope of destruction. With manuals, (well its a good idea with any car) walk around the car at least once a week and make sure the tires are still round. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh56 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Nipper, thanks for the reply. I am BIG on tire pressure, having 4 cars in the family to watch! In fact, I generally check once a month and especially after an oil change since those guys apparently don't know how to read the numbers on the door panels! It turns out that the automatics are cheaper because the parts and labor are less. The tranny guy I'm using just did an automatic for about $750. He's quoting me a bit high due to the time involved. You're right--I don't know if the previous owners understood the importance of the tires. However, none of this explains why Subaru designed the tranny WORSE than previous models. As for me, I'm done with Suby's after this one. Most of our friends with later models are disgusted as well. One just spent about $2k on a Forester and another had the VC go on his automatic and then blew a head gasket! I've got a '91 Honda Accord with 375k miles and a '99 with 235k. I know they're not AWD but who cares. The cost to maintain (I have all the repair records) the Hondas is about 1/3 vs. the Subarus. You have to ask why Subaru's market share is static and not increasing. "You can't fool all the people all the time"! Thanks again for the input. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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