Ticking -- only when giving gas

[Cynthia]

Hi --

 

My 89 Sedan GL Soob (FWD) has developed a ticking noise that sounds like the old card-on-bicycle-wheel trick. When I'm idling, the car has no ticking noise. It's as quiet as a dead mouse.

 

When I'm coasting down a hiill, without giving it any gas, it's quiet.

 

Only when I touch the gas pedal do I get the ticking noise. When I open the windows, I can hear it pretty loudly as I give it more and more gas.

 

Someone here wondered if it was brake caliper?

 

Any other ideas?

 

Thank you!!

[SuBrat84]

How often do you change your oil? It could be your lifters getting sticky. It could also be that you are developing an exhaust leak. Just a couple ideas for you.

[idosubaru]

it's the HLA's making noise.

first step is to change your oil.

after that there are more things to look into but for now do that and get back to use.

have that done and let us know how it goes and let us know how many miles on the engine? any recent work done to it?

[benebob]

I'd go with sticky lifter so change oil too (change it and add Valve medic to it). Could also be a sticky injector provided its fi but wouldn't look at that until the oil was clean and run for a couple days.

[Cynthia]

Actually, I changed the oil June 1. Put in 10/40 wt oil. Change it again?

 

Don't lifters make sound at idle also?

 

Recent work: New tran, timing belt tensioner tightened, new bushings in stick shift,oil pressure sensor new.

[idosubaru]

Actually, I changed the oil June 1.

date doesn't matter, how many miles? how many miles on the car?

 

also - does the sound seem to come from one side, one cylinder or all over? does it change or move across the engine so to speak? this can help point to something affecting them all (oil pump) or something at one cylinder (HLA).

 

Don't lifters make sound at idle also?

yes. but they also don't. there are many variations and possibilites. they don't have to do the same thing every time in every vehicle.

 

oil pressure sensor new.

why was the oil pressure sensor replaced? what does it read on the gauge?

 

depending on mileage, i'd attempt an oil change.

 

if that doesn't do it you're looking at one of three scenarios:

replace the oil pump seals

add some seafoam or ATF to the oil

or start pulling the cams and replacing HLA's (very expensive but rarely needed).

 

the easiest of those three is to add seafoam or ATF to your oil. this has been discussed about 199,234,233,233,112,123 times on the board, using the search will give you all the info you need for that.

 

after that you're looking at replacing the oil pump seals. no need to replace the pump, just the 5 dollars seals. but it requires removing the timing belt so if you're not doing it yourself it's $$$$.

 

for now...keep the music and windows up!

[GeneralDisorder]

Doesn't tick when going downhill in gear....

 

Gets louder under load and with more RPMS....

 

Does it tick when you rev the engine in neutral?

 

I'm going with either an exhaust leak at the heads, or *yikes* a rod knock. I've had both, and the exhaust leak was louder.... the rod knock caught up with and surpassed the exhaust leak in volume about a mile before it threw it out the block. Check the y-pipe gaskets at the heads for evidence of carbon or loose nuts and studs, etc.

 

Lifters are not your problem - they would tick no matter the load on the engine, and their sound would change only with oil delivery (hot/cold, pump volume, seals, etc) and RPM.

 

Calipers.... now it's hard to tell from your description, but there's always the potential that the anti-rattle clips on the brake pads are missing or bent... I've had those tick too - but it sounds like it's comming from a wheel, not the engine.

 

GD

[I)arkZrobe]

Though that happens every once and awhile with my old 86 it usually means its low on oil I would also check your belts for anything caught in them if the sound is in the engine.

[azsubaru]

coasting down a hiill, without giving it any gas, it's quiet.

Only when I touch the gas pedal do I get the ticking noise. quote]

 

Wish I could hear it. Exhaust leak at the head would be a good guess.

 

Can you get someone to stand there with the hood up while you give it the gas, so they could determine what part of the engine it's coming from?

[gunslinger]

sounds like its only doing it under load..... maybe its pinging instead of ticking?? try supreme and see if it goes away.....

 

and, yes, seafoam works great. ive used to much success many times. frees STUCK lifters much less quiets noisy ones.

[mdjdc]

You guys are missing a big clue she gave us; the timing belt tensioner was replaced. I bet that belt is off by one tooth and causing "pinging" on acceleration.

 

Have the belt checked and i think you will find the aource of your noises. I know that this can happen, because I did it once on my old car. I was changing belts in the dark after one broke and it made noises on the way home. Checked the belts the next day and reset the incorrect belt and the noise went away.

 

Good luck

[Cynthia]

You guys are missing a big clue she gave us; the timing belt tensioner was replaced. I bet that belt is off by one tooth and causing "pinging" on acceleration.

 

It wasn't replaced. There was slack in belt. Tensioner was tightened.

 

As I'm thinking back on recent repair history, after tensioner was tightened, all was very quiet with car for several weeks. Then, the tick began. I recall thinking to myself that it seemed to "come out of nowhere." One day quiet; next day tick.

 

In answer to earlier question on this thread, re:

 

1. oil change -- done June 1 10/40 wt. 450 miles driven since June 1.

2. mileage on 89 vehicle is 156,000

3. oil sensor replacement -- done because mechanic said it appeared to be leaking and was a low-cost/easy fix.

4. front cam seals are needed

5. origin of sound -- right side, left, all over? Gosh, dunno. All I know is I can hear it in my car when I push down on accelerator and when I roll down my driver window, I can hear it much more loudly. When cruising along, I do not hear it -- out window or in car.

6. When revving car at idle in neutral, I do not hear it. HOWEVER, I just did a little driveway test. While in neutral and idling, I pushed down on accelerator in a slow, steady manner. No noise. Then I pushed in/let up really fast, not going all the way to floor. Just a fast in/out motion. I got a noise.

7. I know the dif between gas-related ping and this bicycle-card-in-wheel sound. It's definitely not the gas-type ping. I use higher octane gas because she prefers it. It truly sounds like the bicycle/card sound. A friend said his calipers had a rock in them and it resulted in similar sound. <?>

8. This morning when I started her up and she was still cold, I noticed there was no ticking.

9. The car seems to run great, surprisingly enough. Lots of zoom, no hesitancy, no surging, even doing hills fine. I live in an area that has zero flat land -- that's just a slight exaggeration.

 

(take a look! http://www.theslowlane.com/02triph/palouse1.html )

 

Could there have been a problem with the oil sensor install that is causing this? It was a simple install and a male friend did it -- at time of oil change. I recall that at time of oil change, there was already a slight tick, not nearly as noticeable as now.

 

So, in conclusion, steps to take per messages in thread, are possibly as follows:

 

1. Check to see if noise is coming from engine or wheel. (how?)

2. Change oil again. Change filter again. Use sea foam (is that sold in places like Schucks or Napa?) If sea foam not available, use valve medic. (cost $30 -- oil/filter/sea foam)

3. Check for sticky injector. (How do I do this?)

2. Open up covers and check timing belts again. (cost for this is $95 based on invoice for tightening of belt tensioner.)

3. Check anti-rattle clips on brakes pads (cost unknown) (can I do this? )

4. Replace oil pump seals. (Great. I just learned today that I'm one of seven whose teaching contract is not being renewed at university in order to deal with a budget shortfall. No unemployment is given to lecturers.)

5. Check for exhaust leak at head. (Any idea on cost for this? sound this makes?)

6. Check the y-pipe gaskets at the heads for evidence of carbon or loose nuts and studs. (How do I do this? Picture available of area I check?)

 

Rod. It will not be this. It will not be this. It will not be this.

 

 

My process -- does it sound right?

 

Anything else I can tell you?

 

THANK YOU

[fnlyfnd]

the tensioner could be bad if its original, the belts would looke fine while skipping a toth might not by seen with just looking at it??

[DaveT]

Check for exhaust leak at head. (Any idea on cost for this? sound this makes?)

6. Check the y-pipe gaskets at the heads for evidence of carbon or loose nuts and studs. (How do I do this? Picture available of area I check?)

 

 

I go with this one.

 

Both my loyales have this right now. The noise is not clean and sharp like sticky lifters. (I have heard that ocasionally over the years) It does have some pop to it, but also some FFFt of gasses under pressure through a small hole. Not metallic. The noise is only there when the engine is under load. Cruising on the flat is not enough load to make it really loud.

 

A quick test:

 

For AT: Put the car in 2nd. Hold the brake pedal w/ left foot. Apply gas with right. If it is exhaust, you will hear it.

 

For MT:

put in a middle gear. Set parking brake. Slip clutch while apply gas. Don't do this long , but it won't take long to know.

 

Be careful in case the car moves, have room.

[Cynthia]

Thanks for all the help! Diagnosis is correct: exhaust leak. There's carbon. Ordered an exhaust manifold gasket today; it'll be in Wednesday.

 

Great!

 

One bothersome thing is that the muffler fellow I talked to today said he wouldn't work on it because he's had too many bad experiences with stripping when trying to replace the gasket in the 89 Subaru's exhaust manifold.

 

A friend agreed to do it. He told me to get some PB Blaster,which I did.

 

Anybody have this experience -- with stripping or breakage? Any other cautions I should pass on before my male friend tackles this?

 

THANKS

[SuBrat84]

DONT FORCE THE NUTS OFF THE MANIFOLD STUDS! I have had so many studs get stripped, heads get stripped, bolts come out of the head, blah blah blah... if those nuts dont break loose right away and turn easily, you need probably an impact gun or something.(Edit: don't use an impact gun on your aluminum.) The head studs ARE replacable if the nuts are stuck (rusted in place) .. you just have to be very careful about taking them out of the block, because the studs are hardened and the head is aluminum. I can see where the shop guy wouldn't do it, because he is a wuss and is afraid of stipping out your heads. I don't blame him though... messin' up an exhaust job and having to buy and replace someones heads is way expensive.

[Elroy Jetson]

I hear older Subes go by with that problem all the time.

 

Nuts rust on the manifold studs and some service person pulls stud out with the nut. The nut runs up on the stud and the stud treads in only half way and pulls the threads out. Manifold gasket fails and you get that sharp, "tse, tse, tse" sound from the cylinder where the stud is loose.:-\

 

All my subes had it at some time. I would have to tap the hole to the next size and use a bolt instead.

 

Wayne

[ShawnW]

It could also be PING.

[DaveT]

Anybody have this experience -- with stripping or breakage? Any other cautions I should pass on before my male friend tackles this?

 

Support the header pipe with a jaclk or blocks, etc. so it doesn't hang on the studs while removing & reinstalling. Buy new studs and nuts if the originals are rusty looking, or be ready to go buy them. Take it easy when removing the nuts (probably the studs will turn) Get the penetrating oil in there good. Sometimes backing out then in again helps free things up. But sometimes they strip. If it does, about $50.00 at NAPA or similar gets you a Helicoil kit to fix it.

 

Anti seize on reassembly helps prevent future trouble.

I am about ready to try a stainless steel solution for the stupid studs. It will probably involve helicoils though, because I have been unable to find metric stainless studs or threaded rod with the pitch used on the studs.

[mykingcrab]

ez fix

[steveb3]

I've followed this thread because I've had a similar experience. I just had short block,tensioner and cat replaced on my 06 Leg 2.5i.It just turned 150k Short block from loss of power and slivers in oil, cat for exhaust leak(not heard but detecteded by tech) and tensioner because of oil leak from around it. The head gaskets were replaced too. After it was done, the pick up was back and mpg back to normal, but there was some tap that wasn't there before. It was determined by my tech, who is Subie certified and works at a local dealership, that the injectors sounded clogged. He then did a injector cleaning and the tap was gone. But now after all that, there seems to be a rattle when accelerating at about 20-40 mph coming from the drivers side. We checked and tightened all heat shields so that is ruled out. It sems to be more noticeable after warm up and the noise seems to be in sync with the RPMs, sounding like a quicker rattle at higher RPM.But it doesn't throw a code or affect performance. It's more annoying than anything else,just loud enough to be heard.I've read it could be exhaust leak, maybe a bad new cat? Any ideas? Thanks Steve

Edited September 5, 2013 by steveb3

[Gloyale]

Exhaust leak.

 

If the studs strip out drill and tap for a 7/16th stud. No need to helicoil.  If the 7/16th strips later, THEN you can helicoil it.

[steveb3]

Gloyale, are you saying my symptoms sound like exhaust leak? Or are you replying to the earlier post?