Pryce Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I have a '99 Forester L (MT) with 98k miles. About a month and a half ago I replaced both of the front half shaft axels (the CV joints had failed). About a week after that, as I pulled up to a stop light, I heard a loud 'clunk' from the same area as the CV joints I had just replaced. A few more weeks past with no more concerning sounds until one day, when I made a relatively sharp turn, it sounded like the one of the CV joints was failing again. This issue got worse very quickly and began to make the clicking noises even when not turning. After some inspection I have found that it is not the CV joints, but is the front differential that is failing. It is so bad that I can't even drive the thing any more. After talking with a Subaru repair tech, it would seem that the transfer clutch has failed. In addition to this, the main rear egine seal is leaking and with the milage on the vehicle, a new clutch is also in the mix. Estimates for the rear seal, clutch and front differential transfer clutch are in the $2000 - $2500+ range (they cannot give me an exact quote as they have to open up the tranny to see what has to be done). With this and a timming belt comming up at 110k miles ($500), I am looking at $3000+ to get this thing in good condition. I am concerned that the vehicle is just not worth it. I have already had to replace a rear bearing as well as several factory recalls. I bought Subaru for their reliability, but I have not been impressed. When talking to the Subaru tech, he mentioned pulling a fuse for the AWD and that would disengage the FWD. I cannot find this supposed fuse. Can anyone help with this. Any comments are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaceg Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 The FWD fuse is only for automatic transmissions and disengages the rear drive, not the front drive, so I don't think it will help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 i'd look for some input from some people on here.....i'm not well versed in foresters and trans problems but i'll give my oppinion. the MT are reliable, your best bet is to score a used manual transmission and have it installed. i would bet you could find a used trans for $500 or less and have a shop install it for $200 (not the dealer, local transmission shop around here does AWD trans installs for $150-$200). you can get an EJ transmission for $200 for sure, but you may have to swap the rear differntial (which is really easy and they are cheap) if it's not a forester transmission. EJ22 transmissions are easy to come by. if the clutch is fine, you shouldn't need to replace it. was it slipping at all? the front diff does not have a transfer clutch at all that i'm aware of. sounds suspicious to me. if the front diff is bad i would not keep that transmission. i have seen bad front diffs be replaced but the new one get quickly eaten up. apparently a damaged front diff can cause issue where it mates to the transmission gearing/power transfer and this trans damage can eat away your next front diff. probably not likely and they should be able to check for that. but i wouldn't do it when manual transmissions for EJ cars are easy and cheap to find and rarely fail. i think you can end up with a used trans installed and new rear main seal insatlled for under $1,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 don't know if this is obvious but the front diff and transmission are essentially an assembly, very rarely are they separated. they are typically both replaced at the same time and not separated. doesn't look like forester transmissions are very common, i see none in TX or anywhere near you. you may want to put a post on the parts wanted forum here and on the forester board. i'd start looking into swapping in another EJ series (non forester) transmission. you won't have any problems bolting any 1999 transmission right up to your engine, they are a direct replacement. but the final drive may be different so you'd need to match the rear diff if it's not the same. i can't offer specifics of what exact years will work but you have a wide range of options with the manual transmission that will drop in so i'd ask around about that and save yourself a couple thousand dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I am with GG: Either something is getting lost in the translatio between what the Tech thinks that he is telling you and what you have typed. No "transfer clutch" or FWD fuse on manual trnamissions. Any Subaru Tech that doesn't know that probably doesn't have a clue about anything deeper within the tranny. Something to check (but might not make a difference in the end) is to grab the inner joints (the DOJs) of the front axles and try moving them around. if they move significantly (flop around) I would think that the diff side bearings are shot. These should be replaceable by just pulling the axle on that side and following procedures to remove the retainer, the seal, and the bearing. IIRC, you want to complete one side before you do the other to maintain diff alignment. My belief and/or the details may be off, so if you try replacement look into it further. GG is probably right that the easiest/cheapest will probably be just replace with a used tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pryce Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 ... if the clutch is fine, you shouldn't need to replace it. was it slipping at all? ... The clutch is not slipping, but I have to press the pedal to the floor for the clutch to disengage. ... the front diff does not have a transfer clutch at all that i'm aware of. sounds suspicious to me. if the front diff is bad i would not keep that transmission. i have seen bad front diffs be replaced but the new one get quickly eaten up. apparently a damaged front diff can cause issue where it mates to the transmission gearing/power transfer and this trans damage can eat away your next front diff. probably not likely and they should be able to check for that. but i wouldn't do it when manual transmissions for EJ cars are easy and cheap to find and rarely fail. i think you can end up with a used trans installed and new rear main seal insatlled for under $1,000. The Subaru tech called it some kind of 'clutch' in the front differential. I thought they said 'transfer clutch', but I don't really remember (my head was still spinning from the $1200+ price tag). It acts as if there is a failing relay that doesn't engage the FWD all the way (I have no idea how the tranny/differential works). Once the (transfer) gear engages, there is no slippage (grinding); but getting it to engage completely is the problem (as if a relay is not making complete contact). Thank you for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 5MT AWD transmissions are 50-50 Viscous Coupling units. The only clutch involved is the one that you mash when you're short shifting :-p Clunking to me doesn't sound like transmission problems. I would tend to think it was something suspension related...Control Arm, Strut Mount, engine mount, something like that. Transmissions, when they break, well, for one, they break. You don't describe having any shifting problems. Transmissions grind, smash and crash, they don't clunk. I think this "Subaru Tech" is taking for you a $1200+ trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pryce Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 5MT AWD transmissions are 50-50 Viscous Coupling units. The only clutch involved is the one that you mash when you're short shifting :-p Clunking to me doesn't sound like transmission problems. I would tend to think it was something suspension related...Control Arm, Strut Mount, engine mount, something like that. Transmissions, when they break, well, for one, they break. You don't describe having any shifting problems. Transmissions grind, smash and crash, they don't clunk. I think this "Subaru Tech" is taking for you a $1200+ trip. It is not the transmission, it is the front differential. If I could force it into RWD only, I would not have any problems. Unfortunately, it seems this is not possible. Being in Texas, there are not a lot of Subaru dealers and the ones we do have keep changing. I never have liked dealership mechanics and it is becomming obvious that the service rep I spoke with doesn't know what he is talking about. I have found a used Subaru tranny with 83k miles on it for $1100 incl. shipping and six (6) month warranty. Do you think this is a good deal or would I be better off with the EJ tranny as GG mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Tranny and front-diff are one in the same on Subarus. We speak generically of trannies, but they are really transaxles. GG's talking of EJ tranny was meant to let you know that you are not confined to getting a "Forester Transmission", that any 5-speed (within certain limitations) from a Subaru with an EJ-series engine (Legacy, Impreza, Forester) will work. Subarus are FWD with varying abilites to drive the rear wheels. If the problem is driving the front wheels, then the transaxle needs work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 It is not the transmission, it is the front differential. If I could force it into RWD only, I would not have any problems. Unfortunately, it seems this is not possible. Being in Texas, there are not a lot of Subaru dealers and the ones we do have keep changing. I never have liked dealership mechanics and it is becomming obvious that the service rep I spoke with doesn't know what he is talking about. I have found a used Subaru tranny with 83k miles on it for $1100 incl. shipping and six (6) month warranty. Do you think this is a good deal or would I be better off with the EJ tranny as GG mentioned? No. You could only force the 5MT transmission on that vehicle to RWD if you welded the front differential. Remember, on AWD equipped cars, Front Differential and transmission are all in one big box. 5MT AWD transmissions are 50-50 split via Viscous Coupling unit. There are no transfer clutches like on the Autospastics. I still don't think the transmission is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pryce Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 No. You could only force the 5MT transmission on that vehicle to RWD if you welded the front differential. Remember, on AWD equipped cars, Front Differential and transmission are all in one big box. 5MT AWD transmissions are 50-50 split via Viscous Coupling unit. There are no transfer clutches like on the Autospastics. I still don't think the transmission is the problem. I realize that the transmission and front differential are all in one big box. That still doesn't change the fact that they are two separate things. As far as exactly what a Viscous Coupling unit is or how one works, I admit I do not know. What I do know is that the noises I am hearing are not from the suspention. At times it sounds just like the bad CV joints I just replaced (clunk, clunk, clunk). However, now it has gotten so bad that it is obviously a gear grinding noise with the occasional clunk; as if at some point the gears catch, 'clunking' into place. I have found several threads that refer to a 'clunking noise coming from the transmission... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=61454&highlight=clunk http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=59696&highlight=clunk http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=56562&highlight=clunk If I raise a front wheel off of the ground, with the transmission in gear, I can still rotate the wheel and feel the snap as the gear slips from one tooth to the next (and yes, the entire axel rotates all the way to the tranny). The odd thing is ... when I am on level ground, I can hardly get the thing moving because of the gear slippage; but when I drive up my repair ramps, there is no slippage at all and it seems like this would cause the most slippage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickensheets Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I have a '99 Forester L (MT) with 98k miles. About a month and a half ago I replaced both of the front half shaft axels (the CV joints had failed). About a week after that, as I pulled up to a stop light, I heard a loud 'clunk' from the same area as the CV joints I had just replaced. A few more weeks past with no more concerning sounds until one day, when I made a relatively sharp turn, it sounded like the one of the CV joints was failing again. This issue got worse very quickly and began to make the clicking noises even when not turning. After some inspection I have found that it is not the CV joints, but is the front differential that is failing. It is so bad that I can't even drive the thing any more. After talking with a Subaru repair tech, it would seem that the transfer clutch has failed. In addition to this, the main rear egine seal is leaking and with the milage on the vehicle, a new clutch is also in the mix. Estimates for the rear seal, clutch and front differential transfer clutch are in the $2000 - $2500+ range (they cannot give me an exact quote as they have to open up the tranny to see what has to be done). With this and a timming belt comming up at 110k miles ($500), I am looking at $3000+ to get this thing in good condition. I am concerned that the vehicle is just not worth it. I have already had to replace a rear bearing as well as several factory recalls. I bought Subaru for their reliability, but I have not been impressed. When talking to the Subaru tech, he mentioned pulling a fuse for the AWD and that would disengage the FWD. I cannot find this supposed fuse. Can anyone help with this. Any comments are welcome. I would backup to the axle replacement - they may have been put in wrong, or are el-cheapo parts. Just seems fishy. rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I would backup to the axle replacement - they may have been put in wrong, or are el-cheapo parts. Just seems fishy. rd I support this idea as well. Broken trannies don't click. At least, none that I've ever heard of. They usually just shear off gears and then the car doesn't move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I support this idea as well. Broken trannies don't click. At least, none that I've ever heard of. They usually just shear off gears and then the car doesn't move. Its rare that a differnetial just snaps (unless you have 500 hp). The failure mode for a differential is a roar, which varies with speed, and gets louder as you go faster. You have a mis matched axle, it almost sounds like you have the wrong axle/s in the car. That would result in what your hearing. Transmission failures are jumping out of gear, grinding, or loosing a gear. The VC failure would result in Torque bind. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 No. You could only force the 5MT transmission on that vehicle to RWD if you welded the front differential. Remember, on AWD equipped cars, Front Differential and transmission are all in one big box. 5MT AWD transmissions are 50-50 split via Viscous Coupling unit. There are no transfer clutches like on the Autospastics. I still don't think the transmission is the problem. Just to clarify; the front /rear split on the 5-manual is accomplished by way of the center differential. The viscous clutch is connected in parallel with the center diff to limit the amount of differential overrun (overload) between front & rear axles during wheelspin. **** *****! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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