'98 Outback, Keep or Replace?

[otis]

I also want to re-iterate something carl said in an earlier post- get a rental car for your upcoming trip. This way you won't be pressured into making any rash decisions. Maybe you need to drop $5g into your car, and maybe you don't- either way, I don't want to be pressured into making such a decision involving a large chunk of change in a short period of time. I don't know enough about these problems to give you any suggestions on what to actually do in terms of repair.

 

I understand the last thing you want is to be stranded during your vacation (it's happened to me ). so take that variable out of your decision making process and rent the car. last month we rented a dodge durango for $230/week from enterprise (yeah I wouldn't buy one either, but it's bigger than our forester)

[DerFahrer]

It's not that hard to get a conclusive report on whether the HG's are truly blown.

 

Have the coolant "sniffed," that is, tested for hydrocarbons (exhaust particles). If there are hydrocarbons in your coolant, then the HG's are definitely, without a doubt, blown.

 

The work should not cost $4000, at all. Just because the HG's are blown does not mean you need a new shortblock. You can have just the HG's replaced right by a professional who knows Subarus for $1500. The engine could be good for another 200k miles.

 

Do the clutch when it goes out. If you can step on the gas in 3rd, 4th, or 5th gear without it slipping, it's fine.

 

Brakes, I would do those ASAP. That's a safety issue, don't wait on that.

[johnceggleston]

the cost of a clutch replacement once it fails only goes up by the price of the tow. and if you get another year out while waiting, you 've saved a bunch. on the other hand, if the engine is out, go ahead. but my guess is you won't save any just because you combine the work. IMHO they still look both jobs up in the book and then add them together. only a very good mechanic will discount one price because you're already paying fir ir on the other.

 

john

 

 

 

 

It's not that hard to get a conclusive report on whether the HG's are truly blown.

 

Have the coolant "sniffed," that is, tested for hydrocarbons (exhaust particles). If there are hydrocarbons in your coolant, then the HG's are definitely, without a doubt, blown.

 

The work should not cost $4000, at all. Just because the HG's are blown does not mean you need a new shortblock. You can have just the HG's replaced right by a professional who knows Subarus for $1500. The engine could be good for another 200k miles.

 

Do the clutch when it goes out. If you can step on the gas in 3rd, 4th, or 5th gear without it slipping, it's fine.

 

Brakes, I would do those ASAP. That's a safety issue, don't wait on that.

[1 Lucky Texan]

DO consider using the Subaru OEM coolant conditioner after any radiator/HG work. I THINK your engine is among those that can have an internal leak. But black gunk is likely in the coolant reservoir of all '98s.

 

 

 

Carl

[msmithmmx]

I have had enough, this is final. Go to the sub dealer and by the 2 dollar additive for the coolant system. All you have to do is remove 8oz of the current coolant and add the leak preventer in. Go to peps and get 4 rotors at 20 bucks a pop and front and rear pads at 40 a pop. Total repair 162.00. I just saved you major cash. Then have a talk with your neighbor and tell him that you are on to him and you will be watching. Ding, fries are done.

[Gnuman]

DO consider using the Subaru OEM coolant conditioner after any radiator/HG work. I THINK your engine is among those that can have an internal leak. But black gunk is likely in the coolant reservoir of all '98s.

 

 

 

Carl

 

'98s are DOHC. Do NOT put the conditioner in these engines (there have been as many problems caused by the conditioner as from the HG problem itself. it is time for Subaru to come out with a valid fix for this.) The DOHC HG problem is fixed by replacing the HG with the updated ones. The "black gunk" in the overflow is just sediment from the cooling system, and it is in every overflow tank I have seen outside of the showroom floor. Clean it out and keep an eye on it. If you get an oily film on top of the coolant in the overflow tank, then you may have cause for concern.

[nipper]

tell him that you are on to him and you will be watching.

 

There are laws against that:grin:

 

nipper

[jhelman]

Alrighty then. Thank you all for your input. It's been eye-opening to say the least.

 

I’m sure that everyone will be happy to know that I’m going to hold off right now, until I can take it somewhere to test for hydrocarbons in the coolant reservoir. I think that everyone had the same consensus that if this were the case, then the hg was blown. Right?

Then if it is blown, I’ll find out if it’s necessary to replace the short block. It sounds like it most likely won’t be necessary. We’ll see…

 

As far as the brakes go, the price for buying pads and putting them on myself isn’t any better then if I take it in. Plus, then they can determine whether the rotors will need turning or not. I’m pretty sure that putting new pads on a rotor that needs turning isn’t a good idea. So I’ll get the brakes done.

 

PCV valve – sure I’ll put a new one on. I’ll see if that has any correlation to my burning oil. If it doesn’t help then I’ll try some heavier weight oil.

 

Radiator? Yeah I’m handy and could probably replace it, but it’s the time that I don’t have. I have a list of projects a mile long as it is. So when I get the hydrocarbons checked, then I’ll have then do whatever checks need to be done on the radiator.

 

Let’s see… what have I left out? Alternator – check, water pump – check, oil pump – check, alarm siren – snipped.

 

Oh yeah, there is something that rattles about 2800 RPM. Is it the heat shield? Any easy was to find it and stop the rattling? – I know I haven’t mentioned this before.

 

For the trip, it looks like we will be taking our 1990 Buick Park Avenue (32,000 miles) that we got from my wife’s grandmother. Not sure where to put the bikes, but the horn is pretty incredible. It will be going in my subie at some point.

 

I’ll fill you in on the details of the car as it happens.

 

Jon

[jon38iowa]

I have a '98 Legacy Outback Ltd with 105,000 miles. The alternator just went, and I had my neighbor replace it (he's a Subaru mechanic). He noticed many things that are wrong with it, and said that I will need a new upper block, head gasket, while were in there, clutch, plug wires,...

The front and back brakes will also need replacement.

 

He was thinking that he could do it all for around 4 to 5K.

 

My question is, is it worth it to spend this money on a car that has this many miles? The timing belt and water pump have less than 10,000 miles.

 

Other than some cosmetic problems (paint peeling around hood scoop), the car has been awesome.

 

I trust my neighbor completlely, as he would have no reason to lie to me.

 

Should I fix it? or should I look into getting a newer outback with around 30k miles? Will my subie start to become a money pit at this point?

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Jon

Hello Again,

I wanted to follow up with a few things I have learned over the past two years with my forester (2.5 sohc).

I am told ( after going to 4 different shops for daignosis {and $700.00} that this engine is prone to knock noise; moreover, there are two different forms: one is the cold start up type- it sounds bad (mettalic tapping ) for a few minutes until the engine warms, then it disappears entirely and is indeed harmless. The other (which my car is afflicted with{ do to lack of care from preveous owner}) is a deeper mettalic sound, almost a thud\thump, and I am told is" rod noise," and mine on the way out; none the less it still runs, uses no fluids, and doesn't really owe me much at 132000 K(my last american made car,bought new, with meticulous care, barely made it to 120000K). When it does go I will replace it with a rebuild.

I was quated a price of $2000 for a head job( a reputable AAA shop), though my car doesn't need it at this point.Not to disparage your neighbor at all, I must say I have been unimpressed with the Subaru Dealership ( we have here one dealer for an area of Half a Million People) and after two trips there, it is clear to me they don't want to work on my car ( I won't go back); I have found some really good prices on parts through online outlets.

Lastly if your car needs new struts, I recomend KYB; they are almost as good as OEM, but much cheaper, and vastly immproved over Monroe, at least in my oppinion (I had them installed on mine).And I must agree with someone else here,having tried it both ways, I have never gotten a volume discount for work performed.

Good luck with it!

John

[johnceggleston]

don't have the rear rotors turned. unless i'm mistaken, they are unvented, (a single dics instead of what looks like 2 disc seperated by little walls, therefore it looks vented). the rears don't usuallly turn out well. the fronts you can turn with good success.

 

i repeat nippers question, what are the brakes doing that make you think they need to be replaced. pads wear out and need to be raplaced like tires, but rotors .... how many miles are you driving each year?? if they are not warped, why mess with them. worst case is you wear out your new pads too fast. they either stop you or they don't.

 

has any one seen a brake rotor fail?? i haven't but then i've only been driving for 35 years.

 

 

 

Alrighty then. Thank you all for your input. It's been eye-opening to say the least.

 

I’m sure that everyone will be happy to know that I’m going to hold off right now, until I can take it somewhere to test for hydrocarbons in the coolant reservoir. I think that everyone had the same consensus that if this were the case, then the hg was blown. Right?

Then if it is blown, I’ll find out if it’s necessary to replace the short block. It sounds like it most likely won’t be necessary. We’ll see…

 

As far as the brakes go, the price for buying pads and putting them on myself isn’t any better then if I take it in. Plus, then they can determine whether the rotors will need turning or not. I’m pretty sure that putting new pads on a rotor that needs turning isn’t a good idea. So I’ll get the brakes done.

 

PCV valve – sure I’ll put a new one on. I’ll see if that has any correlation to my burning oil. If it doesn’t help then I’ll try some heavier weight oil.

 

Radiator? Yeah I’m handy and could probably replace it, but it’s the time that I don’t have. I have a list of projects a mile long as it is. So when I get the hydrocarbons checked, then I’ll have then do whatever checks need to be done on the radiator.

 

Let’s see… what have I left out? Alternator – check, water pump – check, oil pump – check, alarm siren – snipped.

 

Oh yeah, there is something that rattles about 2800 RPM. Is it the heat shield? Any easy was to find it and stop the rattling? – I know I haven’t mentioned this before.

 

For the trip, it looks like we will be taking our 1990 Buick Park Avenue (32,000 miles) that we got from my wife’s grandmother. Not sure where to put the bikes, but the horn is pretty incredible. It will be going in my subie at some point.

 

I’ll fill you in on the details of the car as it happens.

 

Jon

[1 Lucky Texan]

don't have the rear rotors turned. unless i'm mistaken, they are unvented, (a single dics instead of what looks like 2 disc seperated by little walls, therefore it looks vented). the rears don't usuallly turn out well. the fronts you can turn with good success.

 

i repeat nippers question, what are the brakes doing that make you think they need to be replaced. pads wear out and need to be raplaced like tires, but rotors .... how many miles are you driving each year?? if they are not warped, why mess with them. worst case is you wear out your new pads too fast. they either stop you or they don't.

 

has any one seen a brake rotor fail?? i haven't but then i've only been driving for 35 years.

 

I've only heard of one rotor failing on a Toyota decades ago. the outer part cracked off from the inner hub!

 

Also, I never turned or changed rotors on my old Civic wagon, just pads. Yeah, the rotors are a little 'wavy' but the pads will wear in after the first few stops. After all, the pads you just took off were working on a 'wavy' rotor - right?

 

Unless there is a big 'ridge' at the edge or a major gouge in the rotor, or the brakes are 'grabby'/pulsing. You don't need them turned/replaced.

 

my 2 cents

 

Carl

[nipper]

I've only heard of one rotor failing on a Toyota decades ago. the outer part cracked off from the inner hub!

 

Also, I never turned or changed rotors on my old Civic wagon, just pads. Yeah, the rotors are a little 'wavy' but the pads will wear in after the first few stops. After all, the pads you just took off were working on a 'wavy' rotor - right?

 

Unless there is a big 'ridge' at the edge or a major gouge in the rotor, or the brakes are 'grabby'/pulsing. You don't need them turned/replaced.

 

my 2 cents

 

Carl

 

never turn subaru rotors, they dont like it. Yes there are people here that will say they have had them turned and never had a problem. Not every turning removes the same amount of material. Some remove very little, some remove quite a lot of material. Its just better to replac e them then to do the job twice because they warped from having too much material removed.

 

nipper

[nipper]

I've only heard of one rotor failing on a Toyota decades ago. the outer part cracked off from the inner hub!

 

Also, I never turned or changed rotors on my old Civic wagon, just pads. Yeah, the rotors are a little 'wavy' but the pads will wear in after the first few stops. After all, the pads you just took off were working on a 'wavy' rotor - right?

 

Unless there is a big 'ridge' at the edge or a major gouge in the rotor, or the brakes are 'grabby'/pulsing. You don't need them turned/replaced.

 

my 2 cents

 

Carl

 

never turn subaru rotors, they dont like it. Yes there are people here that will say they have had them turned and never had a problem. Not every turning removes the same amount of material. Some remove very little, some remove quite a lot of material. Its just better to replac e them then to do the job twice because they warped from having too much material removed.

 

nipper

[jhelman]

The mechanic that did my timing belt 3 years ago said that I should address my front discs/rotors.

 

I feel no pulsation in the brakes (like a '90 legacy I had).

 

I'll throw on some pads then. I haven't looked into doing it, but I've got a Haynes manual. Shouldn't be too hard.

[1 Lucky Texan]

The mechanic that did my timing belt 3 years ago said that I should address my front discs/rotors.

 

I feel no pulsation in the brakes (like a '90 legacy I had).

 

I'll throw on some pads then. I haven't looked into doing it, but I've got a Haynes manual. Shouldn't be too hard.

 

I know other folks here are tired of me always p!imping it, but I learned a lot from;

 

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

 

there's other good reading there and on the brake forum at www.nasioc.com

 

let us know how the work goes OK?

 

Carl

[jhelman]

I will.