4x4_Welder Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 My hatch once again has some electrical issues. It seems to have dropped about half of the accessory circuit, but I can't figure out where or how. The PO wired the fan into the fuse box (probably caused this whole thing in the first place), everything was ok aside from slow wipers, but now I have no wiper intermitant or self-park, no fan, no turn signals, no seat belt chime, and the vacuum solenoid for the secondaries won't open. Needles to say, now the car is slow, overheats, and gets honked at. All the fuses under the dash are intact. So now I have to ask- Are there multiple feeds for aux. power coming off the ignition switch, or relays hidden somewhere, or is my car just flaking out on me? Is there a GOOD wiring diagram for this car available? I have one, I think it's a Chiltons, it's printed so small I can't even read it, and the parts I can read have the wrong colors marked on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I happen to have an 81 FSM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 There is no solenoid for the vacuum secondaries - the EA81 Hitachi has internally routed vacuum for them, and the EA82 Hitachi has a single vac line about 3" long going from part of the carb to the vacuum actuator. No solenoids, no electricity - not related to your accesory problem.... Just figured you should know Of the craptacular non-FSM manuals out there, the Haynes has much superior diagrams to the Chiltons.... GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 That's weird, cause there is a vacuum line that goes from the lower part of the carb, out to a solenoid, and back to the vacuum secondary pod. Probably something the PO didn't understand and rigged together. I think it's time to re-do the electrical, and drop one of my smaller Autolite 2BBL carbs on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 You are welcome to borrow my FSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 I might have to take you up on that- the car suffered a total electrical failure today. Went to the DOL in Silverdale, the car was running -ok-, went to start it back up and had nothing. Couldn't jumper the starter and get anything either. Got it towed back to my house, worked on my truck for a while, and heard a noise coming from the car. I had left the key on, and the blower motor started running again. I think I'm just going to put some toggle switches in it, the key is really loose in the tumbler anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 ...Went to the DOL in Silverdale... My favorite place to pay to get verbally and financially abused. I don't go there anymore; I use the one on Kitsap Way in Bremerton. Staff is typically more friendly and helpful. I am around all evening today and most of tomorrow until 5:45-ish. Chico area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 okay, i dont know what kind of engine you have in your hatch, or if it bears ANY resemblance at all to my engine and wiring, but i have a strange fusible link problem.. sometimes, car goes totally dead. it seems to happen mostly as i turn the key from on to start, and then its totally dead.. until i pop the hood and go jiggle the wires around the fusible link block. I think i finally traced it down to one link which had a loose terminal on it.. but it hasnt Not happened in a long enough time for me to say i think i fixed it. anyhow, ive clicked and read this thread about 3 times and each time i wondered what i thought i was going to find here of ANY relevance to me.. and i bet its your problem. ive had similar difficulties with other vehicles. on the forum at zcar.com, my signature is "fusible links blow..." when i read what you said about total failure.. i started thinking fusible links, and when you said it just came back on i thought it sounded like it for sure. give it a shot, you probly have what my brother calls a magic wire.. theyre the source that the gremlins enter your car from. (his words) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Ok, I borrowed Pat's FSM, and it's clearing up some stuff, but causing a bit of confusion. It seems all the different failed circuits are off different fuseable links and even different terminals on the ignition switch. I guess I'll have to invest some time in it over the next couple days. I'm seriously considering just re-running the main power, body and engine grounds, and replace the ignition switch with toggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 advice. actually, it also fixes a problem on my car. there is a main power lead into the fusible link block. that is an indisputable fact of the nature of the thing, right?? i am fairly certain that its only one wire, but there may be more than one. i know for a fact i have a large white wire with a red stripe going into the bottom of my FL block that is bad, its pulled out in the past and i have a hackjob solder connection holding it in right now better than it has been since i owned the car. you may have a similar problem, that would indeed effect multiple circuits. pick up a spare fusible link block in the junkyard, and take yours off the old fashioned way, (diagonal cutters) tear it apart and inspect what you find. i am going to do just that, because i think i can probably take it apart and repair it better than it is.. BUT the junkyard unit is to swap in just in case im wrong and i end up massacring my FL block.. you get my point? just kinda re-engineer the fusible link power feed to ensure that it is a good solid connection still. its not inconceivable that a PO was removing the alternator and somehow it dropped and tugged on the alternator wire.. because the shortest wire on MY alternator is connected directly to the FL block. thats happened to me, and it pulled my half-loose wire out... hence the hackjob solder joint, which hasnt failed yet. but it might help to inspect any large wire going into the thing on the bottom... wiggle it, with the power on, and see if at any point you can kill the car... becase you should be able to play with them all and not experience any of your symptoms if its in good shape. its easy enough to do on my car because you can pop the thing right off of the radiator overflow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 It seems all the different failed circuits are off different fuseable links and even different terminals on the ignition switch. The solution is here in your statement. Get a replacement ignition switch and harness. I'm willing to bet if you check the connector from the ignition switch you'll find a brown spot on the plastic connector indicating a poor connection to power (bad connection gets hot and plastic turns brown). I've seen this on a number of the older '80's cars. In most cases, replacing the harness has fixed it; in one stubborn case, I butt-spliced #10 wire around the connector on the main power wire. If the part is too expensive, check the local Pull a Part yards for a "good" switch/harness assembly (good means no brown spot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 heh, everyone is "willing to bet" that the gremlins responsible for our own problems on oyr cars are the same ones responsible on your car. at least you get brain fuel to help you find places to look for yours. the diversity of "solutions" gives one a good idea how many weak points there are in the electrical system.. namely, infinite. anywhere that gets burned out, corroded, melted, or otherwise buggered is gonna be a PITA to trace down.. but the ignition switch and fusible link power feed are two good places to check. ive also had similar problems with a particularly nasty fusebox in a datsun.. i had to unfasten it and clean the back with a wire brush and replace some connections to get the car to work right again. you were right about one thing though. its definitely gremlins. they hop in over the transdimensional portal allowed by the magic wire i mentioned.. and i will guarantee that somewhere you have a magic wire. keep putting your hand in places and wiggling wires to try to simulate your symptoms with the key on (no motor running) and see if you can kill it. if you can find a way to kill it, you are halfway to finding a way to fix it. just be careful :- ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 heh, everyone is "willing to bet" that the gremlins responsible for our own problems on oyr cars are the same ones responsible on your car... The difference here is a wealth of experience, 3x the age of many others to gain the experience, and the intelligence to understand the experiences. Please note that Ed, unlike many others, didn't say "I had the exact same problem". IMHO, suggestions from him are worth following up on. 4x4_welder, you said that you had jumpered (or similar wording) the starter. Does that just mean to the solenoid, or like jumper cable from power to starter? My '82 caused me grief (pre-USMB ) when the main ground cable connection at the engine/tranny went bad. I replaced the battery cables and cleaned all of the ground and power connections I could find. Regardless, Ed is right in looking for the common connection in the failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Sorry, Pat, but I have had similar electrical gremlins in the past and found the solution to be a faulty connector from the ignition switch to the main power; I've replaced no fewer than three of those assemblies as well as wired around the culprit connection on a fourth. It comes from having three brats and 5 mid '80's wagons come through my family and stewardship. I won't say that the connector IS the problem, but I've seen it so often that I'd bet a beer on it....also, it's a 5 minute check to see if that's it and a 5 minute replacement if it is. I'm basically lazy and look for the easiest and simplest solutions first before I get into the complex time consuming stuff. The liklihood of having 5 different causes for 5 different electrical gremlims is pretty remote unless we're dealing with a grounding issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I'm with Ed - I've replaced more ign. switches than I can even remember. Right at the pink connector the white wire will actually turn brown, and the pink plastic will melt. It's a mess. Aftermarket stereo and alarm installs often tap this wire for a fuse holder to get battery power for doo-dads. This causes even more problems as the wire gets chewed up and gets even hotter while in use. If the whole thing is wasted, you can hunt for one at a junk yard.... note that as far as the wires themselves go, an EA82 connector and wires will work - maybe even the switch itself, but I can't recall. Just chop the connector and about 6" of wire on either side of it. Solder and heat shrink it in rather than butt-connectors. I HATE butt connectors. They are soooo ugly and really don't do a decent job of contact with the wires. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Sorry, Pat, but I have had similar electrical gremlins in the past and found the solution to be a faulty connector from the ignition switch to the main power... I shouldn't post on 2 hours sleep! Ed, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all, as you are far more likely to be right. I was just trying to offer a path if that didn't pan out, but in hindsight should have kept my fingers still unless the switch checked out ok. (heavy sigh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 It turned out that the problem with the starter was the main power cable at the battery had a bad conenction internally, so now it's running again, but back to where it was on Friday. The thing that's throwing me off on this problem is that I have parts of circuits working, and parts not working. No blown fuses, and nothing consistant. I'll have to keep digging still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 i say grounds at that point.i have had several thing s go wrong all at once and chased them back to a common ground.bastards..........the grounds man the grounds..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I shouldn't post on 2 hours sleep! Ed, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all, as you are far more likely to be right. I was just trying to offer a path if that didn't pan out, but in hindsight should have kept my fingers still unless the switch checked out ok. (heavy sigh)You can post anytime you want Pat; I did not take any offense from your comments....just trying to clarify my rationale. Try and get some sleep Pat:) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted August 6, 2006 Author Share Posted August 6, 2006 Ok, it's partially fixed. I wired the fan in where it is supposed to draw power from, and it popped that fuse. The fuse it was tapped into was a 25a, supposed to be a 15a, so the PO must have known about this issue too. I'm going to replace the fan and the hack wiring too. It's got lamp cord, going out through the grommet for the clutch cable, between the grommet and firewall, and the end is wrapped around the fuse. On the plus side, I do have blinkers again after taking the fan out of the circuit. While poking around under the column cover, I saw that my ignition switch isn't in bad shape, but there is a pink connector behind it, seperate, that is melted a bit around one wire. It's a two wire connector, and I cannot see where it goes. Anybody know about this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 Ok, it's partially fixed. I wired the fan in where it is supposed to draw power from, and it popped that fuse. The fuse it was tapped into was a 25a, supposed to be a 15a, so the PO must have known about this issue too. I'm going to replace the fan and the hack wiring too. It's got lamp cord, going out through the grommet for the clutch cable, between the grommet and firewall, and the end is wrapped around the fuse. On the plus side, I do have blinkers again after taking the fan out of the circuit. While poking around under the column cover, I saw that my ignition switch isn't in bad shape, but there is a pink connector behind it, seperate, that is melted a bit around one wire. It's a two wire connector, and I cannot see where it goes. Anybody know about this one? If it's melted around one wire that's your bad connection; wire around it for a decent connection and one more of your problems will be solved. Doesn't matter where it goes until you fix the bad connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 this is a bit offtopic, but not ENTIRELY... After checking this post last night, I started wondering where the term gremlin came from. I am a fairly knowledgeable person, and folklore and linguistical history are two of my stronger points, but I had no idea what a gremlin was, technically speaking; nor did I know where the term had originated. I went to wikipedia and looked it up. Maybe its common knowledge, maybe not, but Roald Dahl invented the concept during his service in WWII, they were little demons that appeared at night or whatever, and sabotaged aircraft causing mechanical fauliures during service. Click for the wikipedia entry for "gremlin" I got curious at random and did some research on a subject I should have known about.. and discovered it was inextriacably linked to one of my favorite authors, whom I do know a decent amount about... so I got a big surprise, and was interested. I thought others might be too. sorry for the (somewhat) offtopic post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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