MSSLGECKO Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Just wanted to check in with the gurus before I go trying to fix things I'm not sure how to. I'm doing this on my EA81T. 1 Do I use SOA gaskets? 2 Do I use any sealer, what kind? 3 Am I okay to do this without a torque wrench? Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 You don't need a torque wrench. You don't have to use SOA gaskets; most gaskets you will find for the valve covers are cork. After removing the valve covers and scraping the old gasket junk off of the cover and off of the engine (cover the valves and such with a cloth so you keep them free of scrapings), you will need to apply gasket sealant to the new gaskets. My favorite strategy is to put some gasket sealant on the cover side of the gasket and put the gasket on the cover, then use white lithium grease on the engine side of the gasket. The use of white lithium grease will still seal the gasket but it will not adhere to the engine; this allows for reuse of the gasket if you have to remove the valve covers for anything. When you torque them, if it feels like you haven't tightened them enough, you actually have. If you overtighten them, you risk splitting or flattening the gasket and it will not seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 yeah - what he said. I'll add what I do to them. I coat the gasket in RTV. What I mean is that I smear a thin layer over the gasket (both sides, and the edges) and let it dry. This prevents the gasket from absorbing hot oil, and cooking themselves into shoe leather. If you do this, you probably won't have to replace them ever again, and you won't have to go back and tighten the bolts more as they will retain their springyness. I don't use any grease or anything - the RTV coating makes them almost like a rubber coated gasket, and they seal very well. As always - clean your mating surfaces. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 When you torque them, if it feels like you haven't tightened them enough, you actually have. If you overtighten them, you risk splitting or flattening the gasket and it will not seal. So . . . trial and error? Or will I just feel it. GD - Can u clarify what RTV is? I hear about it on this forum, but do not know what the heck it is or where to get it . . . BTW, I'm liking this run-down of everyone's personal approaches. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 RTV is just "automotive silicone" basically. RTV actually stands for "Room Temperature Vulcanization" - in other words it's silicone based rubber that sets using chemicals instead of heat. The Automotive stuff is colored, usually safe for oxygen sensors (natural silicone vapor will destroy them), and very heat resistant. The most common brand is Permatex, and you should be able to find it virtually anywhere - even Wall Mart. Here's a shot of what I use - it's called Ultra Gray, and blends better with the aluminium block I think. I don't like strange colored goo oozing out my engine. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006SNLQG/002-7959755-0570465?v=glance&n=15684181 (just realized that link is for a case of 12 - pay no attention to the price. hehe) Mostly I use it on valve covers, and oil pans. I also use it for water pumps. It's safe for cooling systems, and safe for use around oil, but be very careful not to use too much if you apply it wet. It can get sucked into the oil passages, or lifters. That's why I apply a coating to the gasket and let it fully set up before using it. I try not to use it on anything that comes in contact with gas - it will melt. Tightening the bolt - here you should just "feel" it. Unless you have a very small, and very accurate torque wrench you won't get much a reading from them. Also replace the little rubberized washer under each bolt (Fel-Pro includes them in the gasket sets, but I'm not sure if you can order them seperately. Dealer should have them for a couple bucks). Just tighten them down till you start to see the metal of the cover begin to flex. It's made with the ridges in it to flex and apply tension to the gasket. Over time that's what kills the normal gaskets - the pressure eventually compresses the oil-soaked gasket, it gets cooked, and hard and the bolts get loose. With the RTV this does not happen. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 It sounds like you're using a gasket set other than the dealership's(?) Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 The "feel" is sort of like, "Screw in the bolt until it is no longer just screwing in but actually contacting that which it is meant to tighten, and then tighten it a little bit more, maybe 1/4 or 1/2 turn". For a 10mm headed bolt, I wrap my palm around the ratchet head and rotate with only the force that feels comfortable. For 12mm headed bolts, I place 1 finger at the end of the 3/8" ratchet handle and press with only the force that feels comfortable. GD is right about torque wrenches, especially click-type; they don't work well at the torque ranges of small bolts. I have tried various 1/4 drive torque wrenches for 10mm headed bolts, and the ones on my price-range aren't any more accurate than my "feel". BTW, with any bolt that tighens down a sheet metal cover against a gasket (e.g. oil pan, auto-tranny pan, EA81 valve cover) it is better to be too loose than too tight. Too tight can permanently distort the sealing surface of the cover/pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 It sounds like you're using a gasket set other than the dealership's(?) Thanks. Usually I stick with Fel-Pro, but I get dealer gaskets/seals for Intake Manifold, Oil pump, Oil Pan, EGR, and valve covers. I find the dealer ones are thicker, and better quality for those specific gaskets. The Fel-Pro stuff is cheaper, and their head gaskets are superior. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 ^ Ten-Four Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 I asked the parts guys at the dealership about using any gasket sealer (specifically RTV) and they were pretty adamant about not using anything on cork. They said to put a little bit of oil on it and that's it. These guys were saying that the cork would absorb the oil and this would create the best seal - RTV would limit the cork's ability to do this. I'm undecided with regard to using a sealer versus using regular oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 The "guys" at the dealer have probably never seen an EA81, let alone layed hands on one. Do as you like, but I guarantee they will leak in less than 10,000 miles if you don't seal em. All the newer engines the dealer works on regularly use rubber for the valve covers. Subaru made this change for a reason - cork didn't cut it for the valve covers. By using the RTV as I outlined, your are making you own "rubberized" gasket. Besides that - this aint rocket science. No matter how you do it, it will be easily and cheaply fixed if you mess up. Don't worry so much about it - start worrying and asking major questions when you have to tear the engine down for main bearings. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 yah, think of it this way.. you are using your piece of cork, that just HAPPENS to be gasket-shaped, as a mold for your own Kustom Gaskit!! you are upgrading your car to the latest in high tech (high being the operative term) gasketry! no, seriously though.. if you coat the gasket with rubber, then the cork core is permanently isolated from anything, and just serves as a nice, springy center that the rubber skin uses to help itself seat... and the RTV/rubber does all the sealing for you. I have met men who have built more race engines of different sorts than i could conceive who have used GDs trick since my dad didnt even know how to twinkle with his eye yet....if that made sense... and it works. just supporting the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 So . . . trial and error? Or will I just feel it. OK, how's this? Crack a valve cover bolt loose, then immediately start turning it the other way to tighten it. You'll find that you could easily tighten it far past where it had previously set. Pat's comment about choking down on the ratchet so that you are turning the ratchet not by its handle but by its head - reducing the torque you apply to it - is right on... you'll be more sensitive to how tight it feels with less torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Going in for my first valve cover job also and got the dealer parts with numbers I found on here. My gaskets are definitely not cork. They are rubber stringy things that have folded all over in the bag. I do have the right thing, right? And should I still do the RTV trick on these rubber ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 You should specify what model Subaru you are refering to. My EA81T gasket WAS cork & I think the RTV trick good is for all materials. I think it helps the most w/ material like cork because relying on cork is just plain silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Going in for my first valve cover job also and got the dealer parts with numbers I found on here. My gaskets are definitely not cork. They are rubber stringy things that have folded all over in the bag. I do have the right thing, right? And should I still do the RTV trick on these rubber ones? Those are right for an EA82 - is that what you are working on? EA81's are not overhead cam, so they are much simpler, and the gaskets are just square flat cork. Incidentally, I've never replaced the ones on an EA82 - I just RTV them, and replace the bolt rubber washers.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Those are right for an EA82 - is that what you are working on? EA81's are not overhead cam, so they are much simpler, and the gaskets are just square flat cork. Incidentally, I've never replaced the ones on an EA82 - I just RTV them, and replace the bolt rubber washers.... GD Sorry, yeah its an EA82. So you run rtv all around the rubber cord and let it dry? Where did you get your bolt rubber washers? TIA, I'm just full of questions today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Sorry, yeah its an EA82. So you run rtv all around the rubber cord and let it dry? Where did you get your bolt rubber washers? TIA, I'm just full of questions today. Don't let it dry - just run a bead and install the covers. Dealer for the rubber washers. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Don't let it dry - just run a bead and install the covers. Dealer for the rubber washers. GD Is there a thread with the part numbers posted? I have searched and did not find any. I don't trust the Subaru dealership to find the right part numbers since they have only been dealing in them since 2004. They don't know what a GL is... So you run the bead on the valve cover and then put the gasket on? Like I said - 8,000 questions... :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Is there a thread with the part numbers posted? I have searched and did not find any. I don't trust the Subaru dealership to find the right part numbers since they have only been dealing in them since 2004. They don't know what a GL is... So you run the bead on the valve cover and then put the gasket on? Like I said - 8,000 questions... :-\ I just run it on both sides of the gasket. Glue the gasket into the cover with RTV, and then run another bead on the gasket itself where it seals to the cam tower. Put it all together while the RTV is still wet then let it setup for 30 minutes or so before you start the engine. I have no idea on the part number - someone here may know. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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