Danbob Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Okay so I have this 95 legacy with 100k on it that is really starting to piss me off and worry me. In first and second gear, the car sounds like a truck...lots of loud noise and a kind of light grinding or scraping sound. Same thing happens when on the gas hard, or going up a hill hard in mostly any gear. Car drives solid as a rock and always stays in gear. It just sounds like something in the tranny is wrong... How do I know if the tranny is shot in this friggin car? Ugh this is starting to turn into a bad dream. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Pull the dip stick on the tranny and makes sure it has fluid.Probly is a bit low and will need to be topped off.After that I am sure it couldn't hurt to drain the old stuff and put in new.I am not sure what your car will take so have a look in the owners manual.Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 definitely annoying, but hang in there this likely isn't as bad as you may think. first you want to make sure it's not something much easier to deal with than the transmission. describe this sound, where does it sound like it's coming from? if you put the car in neutral and drift will it still make the noise? do all of your tires match in size and tread? (this only matters if it's an AWD). so....is it AWD or FWD? if you put a fuse in the FWD fuse holder in the engine bay does the issue go away? this points to the common torque bind issue. any recent work done to the car? do you do any towing or hard driving? it could also be a wheel bearing, brakes or axle. these are much easier to fix. does it sound like it's coming from one side? can you feel it in the steering wheel or the seat/car? even if you needed another transmission that's not the end of the world either. you can find a transmission for $250 or less (i have one i'd sell for instance) and have it installed for $200 or less (local transmission shop here charges $150 to install a transmission you supply). that's only $450, which isn't that bad for your vehicle. that 2.2 motor in your car will last forever if you don't overheat it or run it out of oil. those are excellent motors, so stay positive, you'll get through this and in 10 years you could still be driving this thing! answer the questions above and we can help you a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 The sound sounds liike it's come from the frint end somewhere. no noise from the rear...car sounds lke it should in the back. The noise reminds me of what my uncle's 93 stick ford explorer sounded liike...basicallyjust loud and grindy like a truck. car does not make the noise at all in neutral or when off the gas The tires all match in size and tread...has blizzaks on it right now but Iknow what tire noise sounds like. I will try the fwd fuse idea and let you know. The car had new rear brakes, new front axle/cv, and a new wheel stud put in yesterday. 565 bucks worthof stuff and labor so you can see why I am pset right now LOL. It was making the sound before that. Itdoesn't sound like it's comming from one side. It sounds like the whole front end. I cannot feelit in the seat or steering wheel of the car. Luckily the car idles smoother than my wrx, runs on the cool side of the temp gauge, and has sat in traffic without the temp going up so I knwo there are no cooling issues. It seems like the more highway driving I do on this car, the less noise comes from it. I hope this helps you guys diagnose my problem! Thanks a ton - Dan BTW I am so sick of NASIOC and the shmucks that are on that site that I think I am just gonna be on here and clubwrx from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 FWD fuse trick will only work if yours is AWD...i didn't see if you said it was AWD or FWD? what kind of CV work did they do? replace a boot, replace the entire axle, replace both axles? these can create noise so we need to know exactly what was done. it does not sound like wheel bearings. the description you're giving of the gas and neutral sounds to me like it's a differential issue. rear differential is much more likely than the front but if you're sure it's up front then that could be it. best to rule out simple stuff before assuming the trans is hosed though. the front diff is essentially one assembly with the transmission, so to replace the front diff is to replace the transmission. off the top of my head i'd first check the front differential fluid level. then after that i'd drain the front differential and see if any chunks come out with the fluid. if the gears have been damaged there will most likely be some pieces of metal in the front diff fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 FWD fuse trick will only work if yours is AWD...i didn't see if you said it was AWD or FWD?... Actually, it sounds like he has a manual transmission; if so, FWD fuse doesn't exist. (I assumed automatic on a different thread, and it was a manual; autos on the brain recently.) Assuming it is a manual, it is possible that you have worn shaft bearings. As suggested, do check oil level and/or drain and replace the oil... and look for metal particles in the drained oil and on the drain plug. My 92 with manual was making noises that sound similar to your description, and it got worse despite oil changes etc. Pretty sure that I have munched bearings on the input shaft and/or output shaft. I will find out ehn I open it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 FWD fuse trick will only work if yours is AWD...i didn't see if you said it was AWD or FWD? what kind of CV work did they do? replace a boot, replace the entire axle, replace both axles? these can create noise so we need to know exactly what was done. it does not sound like wheel bearings. the description you're giving of the gas and neutral sounds to me like it's a differential issue. rear differential is much more likely than the front but if you're sure it's up front then that could be it. best to rule out simple stuff before assuming the trans is hosed though. the front diff is essentially one assembly with the transmission, so to replace the front diff is to replace the transmission. off the top of my head i'd first check the front differential fluid level. then after that i'd drain the front differential and see if any chunks come out with the fluid. if the gears have been damaged there will most likely be some pieces of metal in the front diff fluid. In terms of CV work, the replaced the passenger side CV and axle. I know it's not wheel bearings....the noise clearly comes from the tranny so i definitely think you are right about it not being them. The trans is a 5 speed manual with a brand new clutch. It stays in gear, and shifts smooth, BUT it's got that terrible shifter slop due to worn shifter bushings. I do know that the worn shifter will not cause tranny noise though....maybe a bit of buzzing but nothing like whats happening. Yellow short dipstick in the back is the tranny fluid right? If yes, then I checked it and it is not only full, but looks new because of its smell and color. I am just going to keep driving the car until i figure out what's wrong or until something breaks because it drives fine. It's okay to do this right? I guess I cant do the front wheel drive trick sicne the trans is a manual....oh well. Let'ssay it's the front diff/transmission.... How much do they usually charge for a rebuilt tranny installed....not done through Subaru though because I don't want them touching my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 manual transmissions are very durable and easy to come by. best bet is to install a used one. you can get 5 used ones for the price of a rebuilt probably. rebuilding the front diff is tricky business so i wouldn't expect it to be very cheap. it is very rare to see the issues you're having right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 heat sheilds? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 heat sheilds? nipper No way...I wish it were that simple....this is a metallic grinding sound coming from inside the back part of the engine bay. The motor on the car is mint so I know it is something with the tranny or diff...Hopefully just a bearing or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 manual transmissions are very durable and easy to come by. best bet is to install a used one. you can get 5 used ones for the price of a rebuilt probably. rebuilding the front diff is tricky business so i wouldn't expect it to be very cheap. it is very rare to see the issues you're having right now. How much do used manuals in good shape usually run. Entire clutch assembly including flywheel is brand new so I won't be needing one of those. How much does labor on doing one usually cost and can I run this tranny into the ground before I get a new one without screwing anything else on the car up? Also, unrelated but how long does it take to change a timing belt and water pump? These parts are very cheap and I would rather do this myself with some help than use a shop because I have heard they are fairly easy on 2.2's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 drain the oil and run it into a funnel with a cheese cloth or a paint filter. If there is alot of particles, it may be the tranny, if not i would suspect maybe a broken clutch part. how does it sound on the 4-3 3-2 2-1 shift. How does it sound in reverse? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nipper, The car actually downshifts fine, or at least i think it does. It's loud with going from 1-2, 2-3 - sounds like a truck. Cruising in 4th and fifth is mostly fine. Makes a bit of a whirrrrring noise in neutral, but nothing horrible sounding. Hill holder still works (I thought the brakes were frozen at first because the car doesn't roll back but then I did a search) When you say drain the oil, you mean the tranny oil right? LOL I am not really worried because if the tranny does go, I will just get a used one and throw it in...then the damn thing will never die hahaha. On the upside and off topic - I was poking around today and figured out that the car has a brand spanking new radiator with zero bent fins:-) Also cleaned the interior for four hours today and I am going to do some minor bodywork in the front fender tomorrow as well as on the rear quarter panel where there is a tiny bit of rust. Just gonna sand it, prime it, and touch it up really quickly to contain it for good....Full detail with the porter cable with come after body is fixed up. I might enlist the help of one or two of you who live fairly close by and give a small token of my appreciation. PLus if we were to do it at my place we could also play with my wrx (modded). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 uggh crap still getting the hang of this board....sorry about all the new posts...not trying to be a whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nipper, The car actually downshifts fine, or at least i think it does. It's loud with going from 1-2, 2-3 - sounds like a truck. Cruising in 4th and fifth is mostly fine. Makes a bit of a whirrrrring noise in neutral, but nothing horrible sounding. Hill holder still works (I thought the brakes were frozen at first because the car doesn't roll back but then I did a search) When you say drain the oil, you mean the tranny oil right? LOL I am not really worried because if the tranny does go, I will just get a used one and throw it in...then the damn thing will never die hahaha. On the upside and off topic - I was poking around today and figured out that the car has a brand spanking new radiator with zero bent fins:-) Also cleaned the interior for four hours today and I am going to do some minor bodywork in the front fender tomorrow as well as on the rear quarter panel where there is a tiny bit of rust. Just gonna sand it, prime it, and touch it up really quickly to contain it for good....Full detail with the porter cable with come after body is fixed up. I might enlist the help of one or two of you who live fairly close by and give a small token of my appreciation. PLus if we were to do it at my place we could also play with my wrx (modded). im more worried about it not being the tranny, you doing all that work, and still having the noise nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 i'm with nipper, it would be nice to know for sure what the problem is. in my experience with noises exactly like you're talking about it's a differential gear tooth broken or compromised. i'd drain the trans oil and see if there's any pieces in the oil. drain it through a screen so it'll catch any pieces. also, best to get that metal out of there if that is the case. it will probabaly run for a very long time like this with no problems if it's just a bad tooth on the gear. you won't be damaging anything but the transmission and front differential which you'd be replacing anyway, so drive on. a used transmission can be had in the $150-$300 range. local transmission shops will typically install a supplied transmission for $100-$200 ($150 around here). $250-$500. we rarely see bad manual transmissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 Alright well should I just drive it until something breaks? Is the front differential part of the tranny or is it separate? sorry about all these questions, I am just nervous because I have spent more than I thought I was going to already and the car still isn't sounding right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 probably be okay, there's no way to tell for sure of course. if it's gotten worse over time i'd be more worried. if it's stayed about the same for awhile i'd feel good about it. but again...who knows. crap shot. you really should drain the oil. that would tell you for sure and you'd get any bits out of there that might cause issues if they get caught in something. it's really easy to drain the oil, it's just like changing your engine oil except easier because there's no filter to replace. although you'll need a funnel to fill it back up, but that's not a big deal. or have a place do it for you, should be $15-$20 tops for diff oil, though i've never paid for it. yes the front diff and transmission are essentially an assembly. it is possible to separate them, but it's really not worth the trouble and it's a rather involved job. if either one is bad it's usually best to replace the entire trans. the one guy that i know that replaced a bad front diff ended up ruining the new one too. the old damaged diff probably damaged the areas where the trans/diff interface which ended up damaging his new front diff in well under a year. or it was installed wrong. are you going to drain the trans oil and see what comes out? myself and others are not recommending this just because we want to see you waste your time. this would be much more helpful than speculating over the internet about how long some transmission is going to last that we'll never get to see, hear, taste or feel....tastes great, less filling, tastes great, less filling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 probably be okay, there's no way to tell for sure of course. if it's gotten worse over time i'd be more worried. if it's stayed about the same for awhile i'd feel good about it. but again...who knows. crap shot. you really should drain the oil. that would tell you for sure and you'd get any bits out of there that might cause issues if they get caught in something. it's really easy to drain the oil, it's just like changing your engine oil except easier because there's no filter to replace. although you'll need a funnel to fill it back up, but that's not a big deal. or have a place do it for you, should be $15-$20 tops for diff oil, though i've never paid for it. yes the front diff and transmission are essentially an assembly. it is possible to separate them, but it's really not worth the trouble and it's a rather involved job. if either one is bad it's usually best to replace the entire trans. the one guy that i know that replaced a bad front diff ended up ruining the new one too. the old damaged diff probably damaged the areas where the trans/diff interface which ended up damaging his new front diff in well under a year. or it was installed wrong. are you going to drain the trans oil and see what comes out? myself and others are not recommending this just because we want to see you waste your time. this would be much more helpful than speculating over the internet about how long some transmission is going to last that we'll never get to see, hear, taste or feel....tastes great, less filling, tastes great, less filling... gary, Thanks for being so patient and walking me through this. I am totally fine with draining the fluid. I have done all this stuff on my WRX so I am not a total noob and I have all the tools and everything. I am only this cautious because sometimes used cars can be like opening up a can of worms. Because the wrx is mine, and I have owned it since mile 3, and have done all the work myself and had qualified performance tuners do the rest, it's a lot easier to have piece of mind when working on it. The legacy is far more nerve racking because I don't know what in fact it needs ya know? You have been more than helpful and more than patient and I greatly appreciate it. It's nice to know that not everyone is as impatient as the a-holes on nasioc. All I need to know is what kind of fluid to get and what tools I am going to need to do this. Once I know this, i will do it and report back afterward with pictures if I have to. thanks again a million times for everything! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 the weight of gear oil you need will be in the owners manual. a 75W synthetic would probably be my choice. don't know the size off the top of my head, a 22mm drain plug maybe? does it make it in reverse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceyWV Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Yesterday when I pulled out of my garage, it sounded like I was grinding or possibly dragging something. I put it in park and checked underneath to see if I had caught something on my driveway. Nothing there, drove on to my destination and no issues. My brakes have been squeeling like crazy as of late, and I figure it might be time to change the pads (Even though I JUST changed them 20,000 miles ago) But if I find out what that grinding noise was, it might be an answer to your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 i've seen pads wear out at the 20,000 mark before. cheap pads? don't know, but calipers were fine and slides were all greased (haven't seen it on a subaru but don't see why it can't happen on any car). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nahh doesn't really make it in reverse...maybe a tiny bit but not enough to really notice....Goes into reverse easily too...doesn't really grind, just makes the same sound that my wrx does...typical subaru loudness of going from forward gears to reverse when started cold. I am going to change the fluid within a couple of days....Hopefully it will get better a bit once I do this....if it gets worse I guess I will know that the tranny is f'ed....but you guys have been very reassuring on the prices of everything. I know my shifter bushings are shot right now and there is a lot of play, but until the big issue gets fixed, I need to not worry about the shifter being sloppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDW25gt Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 No way...I wish it were that simple....this is a metallic grinding sound coming from inside the back part of the engine bay. The motor on the car is mint so I know it is something with the tranny or diff...Hopefully just a bearing or something. I think nipper is asking if you trans has heat shields? Does it happen more in tight turns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 It does happen in tight turns, so maybe I have torque bind....but it's not nearly enough to make the car not drive well. This grinding that I am describing...it's more of a loud whirring sound and it happens whenever I am on the gas.... Also what's wierd is that when I am just sitting in neutral, it makes a whirring sound too, but when I push the clutch in, the whirring sound goes away...I don't know maybe that'd help diagnose the problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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