Autocrossing the Loyale this weekend... tips?

[Syonyk]

Well, the RX-7 is out with bad wheel bearings. There's an autocross this weekend on a gokart track. I'm planning to take the Loyale.

 

Suggestions on the best way to get them around a track quickly would be appreciated. I'm planning to swap my rear disks on before I go, empty it out, and... then, pretty much, just give it hell. Suspension is soft, there's no rear swaybar, cheap street tires, it should be fun.

 

A few questions:

 

1. Will a stock Loyale on regular pavement with cheap tires slide, or roll? It seems pretty stable, I just don't want to find out the hard way that it rolls. :-)

 

2. Would I gain any power running a tank of premium & advancing the timing to 24-25deg BTDC?

 

3. I'm pretty sure 4WD would be bad for the drivetrain & bad for handling on dry pavement, right?

 

4. What's the quickest way to chuck an old wagon around a track?

 

5. Any other thoughts?

 

Thanks! I'll post pics from the event when I run.

 

-=Russ=-

[rallyruss]

look out for the crappy understeering. that will be the biggest problem.

 

take it a little easy and you might just get better times. just pick good lines.

 

oh yeah have fun:D

[Jack in Norfolk]

No offense bro, but prepare for a lesson in humility. I had an 86 gl 4wd wagon. I have never done autocross, and i don't know what your compettition is going to look like, but my girlfriend used to think it was so funny to roll up next to me in her 87 golf (8v, AT) at stoplights and just obliterate me off the line. It was never even close. That was when we were in college.

Its always fun to get a car on a track and see what it will do though.

Have a good time and don't beat her too hard. She's not a race car and she's getting pretty long in the tooth.

[Flowmastered87GL]

It should slide unless you have really narrow tires and a lift. My 87 GL with slightly more offset and 185/70 tires slid when I took a corner too hot. Only time I've ever got any rubber off the ground was off roading.

[Syonyk]

No offense bro, but prepare for a lesson in humility.

 

Oh, I'm prepared. My RX-7 with old suspension & not that much power is one of the slowest cars around the track. I'm racing mostly against Mustang guys with race tires & suspension work. I don't do it to be competative, I do it for fun. Pretty much, some of my friends & I go to have fun, and sort of race amongst each other (the "low power street tire" crew). It's nice to be able to go out & drive a car hard without worrying about cops.

 

-=Russ=-

[76mgb88rx]

You might try to lower your front tire pressure slightly to prevent understeer, Take everything that you can out of your car, less weight is better. Also, if an autocross is set up right, straight line speed shouldn't make too much of a difference. At our autocrosses the miatas sometimes post FTD and almost always beat cars that are much faster in a straight line. A smooth line is the key, not power.

[NorthWet]

You might try to lower your front tire pressure slightly to prevent understeer...

Huh???

[Roundeye]

DO NOT LOWER TIRE PRESSURE! If anything, over-inflate them to keep from rolling the bead off when taking hard turns.

 

If you roll the bead off in a turn, the rim will dig in and you WILL find out what it's like to roll a Subaru.

 

I used to autocross old VW Beetles, over-inflating the tires and sliding around is the only way I kept them upright.

[subeman90]

^^^^ Listen to this guy!!!!!!!! he is absolutely correct. If you really overinflate the rear maybe you can get it to slide around a little for you.

[robm]

If the track is at all slippery (wet or gravel, in other words) 4WD will help get the back end sliding. But there seems to be noticeably less power available in 4WD. In a straight line, a stock Loyale seems to be even more doggish when accelerating in 4WD.

 

I can't imagine it rolling on you, as long as you don't hit something sideways and trip over it. Unlikely on an autocross course.

[NorthWet]

Car should do just fine without risk of rolling. FWD should also be just fine. I've seen everybody in my class get beaten by a Honda 600. Power isn't everything.

[DerFahrer]

Like NorthWet said, don't worry about not having power. In fact, the fact that EA82's are all-torque and no-power could make them a lot more formidable on an autoX course than most might think. Where WRX's are stumbling off-boost, you're pulling forward with authority.

 

The problem is the pronounced understeer and the nonexistant suspension options.

 

I know you don't have time this time around, but if you plan on competing with the car in the future, install a rear swaybar from a car with air ride, like my XT. The air ride cars have the thickest swaybars, and if you put a thick rear swaybar where there used to be none, you will have a much sportier-driving car right off the bat

[testy]

Like NorthWet said, don't worry about not having power. In fact, the fact that EA82's are all-torque and no-power could make them a lot more formidable on an autoX course than most might think. Where WRX's are stumbling off-boost, you're pulling forward with authority.

 

The problem is the pronounced understeer and the nonexistant suspension options.

 

I know you don't have time this time around, but if you plan on competing with the car in the future, install a rear swaybar from a car with air ride, like my XT. The air ride cars have the thickest swaybars, and if you put a thick rear swaybar where there used to be none, you will have a much sportier-driving car right off the bat

 

 

rwd convert?

 

if that doesnt help you do better you can always do a sweet smoke show.

[Numbchux]

in my young, aggressive, and lazy year(s)....I found that a loyale will slide before rolling. I could get it to drift on dry pavement (it was FWD too...)

 

I also found out what it's like to roll a tire off the bead. I didn't roll then either. just screwed up the tire, the pavement, and the balancing weight that was on the wheel.

 

4WD causes way more drag than you'll gain, even in a straight line...turning? forget about it.

 

I never drove it on the track, but I did find out that as long as you're careful with the weight transfer, the understeer can be avoided...if you can find a secluded and NOT blind corner somewhere, give it a try. it's pretty easy to get the weight to shift, and get darn good traction around a corner. even on crappy tires.

 

if it were me, I'd pull the rear axles too. then you won't have the rear end spinning, a little less rotating mass, little better accel.

[Phizinza]

4WD will get rid of a fair bit of understeer... It could also break an axle. Normally the inner CV cups break open...

[Carmen]

i do not know exactly what is a autocrosing, but if it is a race, our ea82 wagon improves way beter grip with the 205/60 R13 tires. maybe you can get a not expensive used ones!

[Moodybluesr]

I will be autoxing my XT6 this weekend too; not at the same venue of course. I'll try to answer your questions one at a time here...

 

1) The car will slide before it tips, and you should definately run higher pressures in your tires to make sure you are getting full contact during extreme cornering, braking. I would start the fronts out at 38psi and the rears at 35psi and adjust from there. If you know how to chalk your tires, that is definately a handy way to figure out where they should be.

 

2)The gains you would get from the timing adjustment would be negligable at best; I would just stick to stock in this area.

 

3)DO NOT run in 4wd unless you have an extra tranny sitting around adn the time to put it in. Stick to fwd and keep your car happy.

 

4)Maintain a good line, sometimes driving slow is the quickest way through a corner, avoid excessive wheel spin, try to brake while you are going straight, etc.

 

I hope all goes well for you. The event in my area this weekend is not for points so I can relax and have a little more fun than usual. Let us know how your weekend turns out.

 

[daeron]

moodybluesr, NICE PIC!!!!!

 

autocrossing a car makes for such a pretty portrait of her, dont you think???

 

ive always been curious what one of these GL/Loyales would handle like set up for RWD only on an autocross course. but my 87 GL-10 at 2450 curb weight, makes for fun around corners. not much Oompah from the gas pedal, but lots of smiles from the steering wheel.

 

oh yah, carmen.. 205/60r13s?!?!! yah, i would guess the car probably WOULD handle slightly better with that much tire under it.. in fact, that might even be TOO much unless you need it for power.. how wide is the tread on that? what size wheels do you have them on?

[JWX]

The problem is the pronounced understeer and the nonexistant suspension options.

hahahahaha

[pheonix165]

from personal experience....

 

the car tends to roll (body roll) not slide, i found that you should be prepared to rotate your tires when your done. my sidewalls were pretty chunked when i was done.

 

i used 4low when i run but if your good with a stick and you can get it into first to reduce bogging you will be fine, if not better off in 4hi.

 

i have a carbed single port gl with d/r 5 speed. i ran 45psi all the way round with 185/70/13's.

 

i remain competitive in the "h" stock class however am quickly outmatched by better drivers in more 'appropriate' cars ie civic dx's

 

keep and eye on your oil mine tended to seep a little extra due to cornering load. use cheap gas, higher octane actually doesn't do that great.

 

leave your spare in but take every thing else out, the spare helps keep the car a little lower and prevents a little of that body roll

 

keep and eye on the tack, i don't know if you do but i don't have a rev limiter.

 

clean your windows, you'd be surprised how much glare is preventable

 

rap you steering column in tape, the adjustable steering wheel height has come loose on me more then once, or twice, or three times...you look stupid going down the track with your steering wheel going up and down while you try to turn.

 

remember its and old car, it may not be fast...but i will corner

 

be prepared to hit your head, i'm 6 1 and i have to sit like homie g just to fit under the roof

 

full tank of fuel works best for me, maybe it will for you too

[robm]

I can't imagine a RWD only conversion working well. These cars have so much weight over the front wheels, I suspect it would just sit there and spin its tires. Perhaps fun and impressive, with lots of sliding and smoke, but not fast.

[WJM]

The problem is the pronounced understeer and the nonexistant suspension options.

 

 

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

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[WJM]

I can't imagine a RWD only conversion working well. These cars have so much weight over the front wheels, I suspect it would just sit there and spin its tires. Perhaps fun and impressive, with lots of sliding and smoke, but not fast.

 

In a bone stock RX thats converted to RWD....its quite quite QUITE fun....and still fast on a dry sealed surface.

[Syonyk]

That was a blast.

 

Four runs, roughed up the tires a good bit, and plastered a grin from ear to ear for the better part of the day.

 

Some comments/suggestions for anyone else planning to do something like this:

 

I didn't get a chance to switch to the disks in the rear, so I was running with the drums. They weren't great, but they slowed me down. And, honestly, I wasn't using the brakes a whole lot. Not like I had a lot of speed to scrub...

 

I would strongly suggest bleeding your brakes, though. I bled them after my 1st run, and it made a noticeable difference. I still need to flush the brake system out, but just doing a quick bleed at the ends helped noticeably in pedal feel. I'm planning to get SS lines, though.

 

I ran the front tires at 45psi, and the rears at 40. This worked fairly well, with the handling being almost neutral, with a slight understeer. I was quite impressed with how well I could throw it into corners, sometimes using a bit of a flick to get the rear to rotate. I did get mild oversteer at multiple points, usually when trail braking to induce it. However, it wasn't anything excessive, and was very controllable.

 

Power... what can I say? It's an EA82 Subaru. Fortunately, I was coming out of most of the corners in 2nd gear at 3000 RPM... right where my power band hits. I was spinning the inside tire coming out of some of the corners. I never thought I'd say that about an EA82 Subaru when discussing dry pavement, but... I am.

 

Suspension. *laughs* Yea. It needs work. The struts are too soft (just old), the spring rate is WAY too low, and if I was driving a car with normal suspension travel I'd have been tripoding. As I have absurd amounts of rear suspension travel, I just got comments like, "So... I think I could have fit a bowling ball in the gap between the wheel & the fender." I think I'm going to be upgrading the suspension (not just for autocross, but because it will ride better). However, the flip side is that my ride is *comfortable* on the highway - a friend had a Honda CRX there with 500 pound springs in the front & 700 pound springs in the back (REALLY STIFF), and following him after the autocross for food, he'd hit a bump, I'd watch his head almost hit the roof, and I'd barely feel it.

 

Tires: Agh, the rollover! I wasn't getting a lot of sidewall scuffing (only 1/2 to 3/4"), but apparently I had over half of the sidewall rolled under, and the handling tended to agree. Very vague in the corners, and some truly odd feelings from the tires. Again, 185/75/13 is probably not the best autocross tire size, but it works for a daily driver just fine.

 

Amazingly, I wasn't the slowest car there. I was in the slowest 5 or 6 cars, but definitely not the slowest. Fastest time of day was a 1:18.5, and my best was a 1:38.5 - with my best in the RX-7 being in the low 1:30s. A Mini that was there ran a 1:33 quite consistantly.

 

Pretty much, if you're considering autocrossing an EA82 of any form, make sure your wheels are on tight, add some air, bleed your brakes, and go for it. It's definitely a fun car to throw around, and you'll be lighter than most other cars there.

 

-=Russ=-

[Syonyk]

Video:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6536562942678863311

 

Pics:

 

 

 

-=Russ=-