Engine 2. down the drain?

[jluther]

I have been a reader on here for a while but don't post much, just search for what I need. I think I have a unique enough dilemma to post.

 

I bought a 97 outback wagon with 94K. Drove it to about 120k or a few over, and idler broke, causing the timing belt to break.

I wasn't aware of timing belt issues at that time and how important they are to replace, or when to replace, etc.

Learned my lesson.

 

I bought a new short block and had it installed ($4500). It came with a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty. They car has been driving very very well. Super strong engine, felt brand new.

 

Last week coming home from work, I heard a weird clicking/knocking sound and took it in. I was told I have a rod knock and the only thing to do is to replace the engine. Since it's still under warranty, that seems like the logical solution. The local independent subaru repair shop, said they cannot get the warranty to go thru because the heat tabs that are placed on the new engine block have melted, indicating that the engine was overheated.

 

They told me they don't know what to do, because the thermostat is good, the coolant looks good, the oil looked good, etc. Everything has been maintained. They'd really like to get it warrantied, but cannot get around the melted heat tab issue.

 

I have no idea when it overheated. It has never failed/steam coming out of the hood at all. One time about 1.5 years ago I was driving up a steep hill and noticed the heat wasn't working. I pulled over, checked the coolant, there was none in the res, so I let the car sit there all day and cool down. The gauge was above the center but not yet to the H.

 

I coasted back downhill because luckily there is an autopart store 2 miles (steep downhill) away. I watched the thermo the whole time and it never rose, as I wasn't using the gas. I added coolant and never had a problem again. Drove all over the place for 1.5 years after this incident. It's the only thing I can think of.

 

Now, with the rod knock, the engine will soon fail. They are sympathetic and will put in a new one at no profit ($3K). I am a poor grad student and haven't even paid off the car yet (deferred loan).

 

What do I do? The rest of the car is in great shape. Any buyers?

Just looking for some consolation, or something.

[porcupine73]

How long has the new engine been in there? Could've been an air pocket in the cooling system causing localized heating that you might not have seen on the temp gauge. Or might have had a slow leak or something that eventually consumed all the coolant in the overflow tank, and voila, air pocket. Esp. if you had to add coolant when you got to auto zone.

 

I'm not overly familiar with engines to know the ramifications of rod knock if that's what it has. I mean who knows how long the engine would still run? Is it really noisy?

[jluther]

put a baseball card on a bike spoke and noise is similar.

[cookie]

That sure was an overheating incident that would do the trick. It is next to impossible to say why now as there could have been so many reasons and it makes no difference.

If I really loved the car I would consider another engine but with that crummy luck you might just want to sell it and buy a car with a warranty.

[svxpert]

<<I bought a new short block and had it installed ($4500). It came with a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty. >>

 

[nipper]

im hoping that was 4500 installed. i never heard fo heat tabs, but if anyone wants to jump in and explain them, we can maybe get to th truth of it.

i really dont think the rod knock is related to an overheat. You really really have to cook the engine to get the oil to break down and cause rodknock.

Ask them what cylinders have rod knock. When subarus get rodknock, its because the oil has broken down due to heat. the last connecting rod to get oil, the rear one on the pass side, is usually the one that fails.

I mean you REALLY have to cook the engine, pegged temp gauge the entire 9 yards.

Under what conditions did the car fail. Did it over heat? You can always use a failed HG as a defense, since usually a HG fails on an overheat, or a failed HG will cause an overheat, there is no where to prove what came first.

How soon after you got the engine did this one fail. I think you may still have grounds for a fight.

 

nipper

[tcspeer]

If your conscious is clear and it should be, then take them to small claims court. If they dont replace it I would send then a cert. letter and request replacement with the promise that you will seek to get it replaced by the court if they refuse. I agree with Nipper knocking rod is not the sign of an over heated engine. You hold the warranty it is them that will have to prove you are at fault. You say you are a grad student so learn to use the court system while you are young and dont wait until middle age like me. If you dont know how ask the clerk at the court they will guide you.

I have been a reader on here for a while but don't post much, just search for what I need. I think I have a unique enough dilemma to post.

 

I bought a 97 outback wagon with 94K. Drove it to about 120k or a few over, and idler broke, causing the timing belt to break.

I wasn't aware of timing belt issues at that time and how important they are to replace, or when to replace, etc.

Learned my lesson.

 

I bought a new short block and had it installed ($4500). It came with a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty. They car has been driving very very well. Super strong engine, felt brand new.

 

Last week coming home from work, I heard a weird clicking/knocking sound and took it in. I was told I have a rod knock and the only thing to do is to replace the engine. Since it's still under warranty, that seems like the logical solution. The local independent subaru repair shop, said they cannot get the warranty to go thru because the heat tabs that are placed on the new engine block have melted, indicating that the engine was overheated.

 

They told me they don't know what to do, because the thermostat is good, the coolant looks good, the oil looked good, etc. Everything has been maintained. They'd really like to get it warrantied, but cannot get around the melted heat tab issue.

 

I have no idea when it overheated. It has never failed/steam coming out of the hood at all. One time about 1.5 years ago I was driving up a steep hill and noticed the heat wasn't working. I pulled over, checked the coolant, there was none in the res, so I let the car sit there all day and cool down. The gauge was above the center but not yet to the H.

 

I coasted back downhill because luckily there is an autopart store 2 miles (steep downhill) away. I watched the thermo the whole time and it never rose, as I wasn't using the gas. I added coolant and never had a problem again. Drove all over the place for 1.5 years after this incident. It's the only thing I can think of.

 

Now, with the rod knock, the engine will soon fail. They are sympathetic and will put in a new one at no profit ($3K). I am a poor grad student and haven't even paid off the car yet (deferred loan).

 

What do I do? The rest of the car is in great shape. Any buyers?

Just looking for some consolation, or something.

[jluther]

Heat tabs are an alloy of metals that has a particular melting point. It has a logo stamped on it. If the engine gets to that temperature, the tab melts and the logo is gone. They can't be popped off and/or replaced. They're are just a way for the shop to tell whether or not the engine has been overheated.

 

Yes the 4500 included installation. They said they would put a new one in for me at their cost for the engine and not charge for the labor for 3000.

 

The engine never overheated like I know the term. The way I know the term "overheated" the radiator cap blows and steam comes out from under the hood, etc.

 

He said they checked the thermostat and it's good. So I don't think a faulty gauge argument would hold.

 

So is my warranty with Subaru? or the shop that I have been taking it to?

[tcspeer]

The warranty should have that information on it, but it should be with the one that sold the engine to you, or to Subaru. If they sold the engine to Subaru then you can claim against each, as the shop becomes an agent of the first.

Heat tabs are an alloy of metals that has a particular melting point. It has a logo stamped on it. If the engine gets to that temperature, the tab melts and the logo is gone. They can't be popped off and/or replaced. They're are just a way for the shop to tell whether or not the engine has been overheated.

 

Yes the 4500 included installation. They said they would put a new one in for me at their cost for the engine and not charge for the labor for 3000.

 

The engine never overheated like I know the term. The way I know the term "overheated" the radiator cap blows and steam comes out from under the hood, etc.

 

He said they checked the thermostat and it's good. So I don't think a faulty gauge argument would hold.

 

So is my warranty with Subaru? or the shop that I have been taking it to?

[nipper]

Heat tabs are an alloy of metals that has a particular melting point. It has a logo stamped on it. If the engine gets to that temperature, the tab melts and the logo is gone. They can't be popped off and/or replaced. They're are just a way for the shop to tell whether or not the engine has been overheated.

 

Yes the 4500 included installation. They said they would put a new one in for me at their cost for the engine and not charge for the labor for 3000.

 

The engine never overheated like I know the term. The way I know the term "overheated" the radiator cap blows and steam comes out from under the hood, etc.

 

He said they checked the thermostat and it's good. So I don't think a faulty gauge argument would hold.

 

So is my warranty with Subaru? or the shop that I have been taking it to?

 

thermostat and faulty gauge are two totally differnt systems. Over heat is did the gauge go into the hot zone and stay there. The version of overheat really doesnt apply, as it is rare, but you do have steam coming out. Did you notice if the overflow tank was full, that would be a sign that the car over heated.. You have to go by the gauge, and how the car was running. i dont ever recall a temp gauge failing on a sooby.

 

Once again, how long between the car failing and the engine being installed.

Also have the engine oil tested. That will tell you if the engine did truly overheat. Unless the shrot block was brand new, and not rebuilt new, you cant certify that the overheat tabs were there to begin with. Look at your warrenty and paperwork to find out if it is a brand new subaru block or a dealer rebuilt block. My gut tells me its a rebuilt block, therefor the tabs may have been melted from when the block was first taken out of a car.

 

 

nipper

[NorthWet]

It is common for used engines to have overheat indicators (the ones that I have seen are plastic/polymer). They are on all of the JDM-import engines that I have seen.

 

Small Claims Court probably wouldn't do much good as the amount probably exceeds the Court's upper monetary limit. (Used to be $1000, but that was last Millenium.)

[nipper]

It is common for used engines to have overheat indicators (the ones that I have seen are plastic/polymer). They are on all of the JDM-import engines that I have seen.

 

Small Claims Court probably wouldn't do much good as the amount probably exceeds the Court's upper monetary limit. (Used to be $1000, but that was last Millenium.)

 

each jurisdiction has a different small claims limit. Here in NY its 5000.00

 

nipper

[brus brother]

+1 What Nippie said!

Unless the shrot block was brand new, and not rebuilt new, you cant certify that the overheat tabs were there to begin with. Look at your warrenty and paperwork to find out if it is a brand new subaru block or a dealer rebuilt block. My gut tells me its a rebuilt block, therefor the tabs may have been melted from when the block was first taken out of a car.

 

 

nipper

[rweddy]

Yes the 4500 included installation. They said they would put a new one in for me at their cost for the engine and not charge for the labor for 3000.

What shop is this?

My co-worker blew his 2.5 ( oil leak issue, then ran it dry) and S-Wings put in a ccr motor and including labor it only cost him 2500.

[tcspeer]

Colorado is 7,500.00 and Amazon has a book, Winning Big In Colorado Small Claims Court. Everyone should have the book for their State they are easy to read and understand or at least the Texas one is.

It is common for used engines to have overheat indicators (the ones that I have seen are plastic/polymer). They are on all of the JDM-import engines that I have seen.

 

Small Claims Court probably wouldn't do much good as the amount probably exceeds the Court's upper monetary limit. (Used to be $1000, but that was last Millenium.)

[jluther]

The short block was new. I didn't go for the rebuild. I figured if I spent the little extra it was for a new one, it would honestly last forever.

 

Shop is Super Rupair

 

The time that the temp gauge went up 3/4 to H was about 1.5 years ago. My oil looked good they said. No black deposits or anything.

 

Isn't there any way to fix the rod?

 

I don't have any of the paperwork with me here, so I can't be sure about the warranty. It says the oil has to be changed every 3000 miles, and the shop recommended me change it every 3750. So that's what I did. Which I guess could void the warranty.

 

Still upset...

 

What percentage of the KBB would you think I could get for it? Would anyone buy a car without a motor? It does still drive fine for now. They said I could easily get a couple thousand more miles out of it.

[nipper]

The short block was new. I didn't go for the rebuild. I figured if I spent the little extra it was for a new one, it would honestly last forever.

 

Shop is Super Rupair

 

The time that the temp gauge went up 3/4 to H was about 1.5 years ago. My oil looked good they said. No black deposits or anything.

 

Isn't there any way to fix the rod?

 

I don't have any of the paperwork with me here, so I can't be sure about the warranty. It says the oil has to be changed every 3000 miles, and the shop recommended me change it every 3750. So that's what I did. Which I guess could void the warranty.

 

Still upset...

 

What percentage of the KBB would you think I could get for it? Would anyone buy a car without a motor? It does still drive fine for now. They said I could easily get a couple thousand more miles out of it.

 

i am going to try this one more time, otherwise im going to bow out.

 

how long after the engine was installed did it fail. If it was a relativley short amount of time, then the dealership labor can be questioned.

 

You dont analyze oil by looking at it, it goes to a lab for a small fee and they can tell what happened to the engine with some accuratcy. They analyze it for chemical greakdown and metals.

 

Yes the rod bearing can be replaced, but only if the crank journal was not damaged. if the engine was baked, there is agood chance the Head gaskets are shot, or stressed so much that i would not trust them.

 

nipper

[ericem]

The short block was new. I didn't go for the rebuild. I figured if I spent the little extra it was for a new one, it would honestly last forever.

 

Shop is Super Rupair

 

The time that the temp gauge went up 3/4 to H was about 1.5 years ago. My oil looked good they said. No black deposits or anything.

 

Isn't there any way to fix the rod?

 

I don't have any of the paperwork with me here, so I can't be sure about the warranty. It says the oil has to be changed every 3000 miles, and the shop recommended me change it every 3750. So that's what I did. Which I guess could void the warranty.

 

Still upset...

 

What percentage of the KBB would you think I could get for it? Would anyone buy a car without a motor? It does still drive fine for now. They said I could easily get a couple thousand more miles out of it.

 

You still got the 91 legacy sedan right?

[jluther]

See, it never really "failed". I took it in because I just started hearing the knocking. The only time there was an issue with possibly overheating was 1.5 years ago. That was roughly 2 months after it was installed. I noticed it was a little low in coolant, added some and the temp never went up again.

 

91 sedan is the lady's.

[ericem]

See, it never really "failed". I took it in because I just started hearing the knocking. The only time there was an issue with possibly overheating was 1.5 years ago. That was roughly 2 months after it was installed. I noticed it was a little low in coolant, added some and the temp never went up again.

 

91 sedan is the lady's.

 

I see well isnt she a lucky gurl.

 

Anyway, well i really suggest u force this warrenty thing really i do. Somehow like go there with a gun i dont know(dont go there with a gun) or small claims court still might do the trick probably on cost $50 anyway and it might save you 3000 so. Ya. But really you should push this shop to doing the job out off warenty, and 4500 is alot to spend. I mean i have spent $3000CDN on just a transmission, and it wasn't even brand new, just a partial rebuild.

[tcspeer]

I see you dont appear to be interested to much in the ideal of the court, so I will offer you another suggestion, find a wrecking yard and have them replace the engine with a used one. A lot of yards will replace the engine for you and if they dont they ussally work with a shop within a few miles that will. You should be able to have this done for around 2,000.00 dollars at least that is in the ballpark for Texas for most cars. And most will come with some kind of warranty.

I see well isnt she a lucky gurl.

 

Anyway, well i really suggest u force this warrenty thing really i do. Somehow like go there with a gun i dont know(dont go there with a gun) or small claims court still might do the trick probably on cost $50 anyway and it might save you 3000 so. Ya. But really you should push this shop to doing the job out off warenty, and 4500 is alot to spend. I mean i have spent $3000CDN on just a transmission, and it wasn't even brand new, just a partial rebuild.

[jon38iowa]

I have been a reader on here for a while but don't post much, just search for what I need. I think I have a unique enough dilemma to post.

 

I bought a 97 outback wagon with 94K. Drove it to about 120k or a few over, and idler broke, causing the timing belt to break.

I wasn't aware of timing belt issues at that time and how important they are to replace, or when to replace, etc.

Learned my lesson.

 

I bought a new short block and had it installed ($4500). It came with a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty. They car has been driving very very well. Super strong engine, felt brand new.

 

Last week coming home from work, I heard a weird clicking/knocking sound and took it in. I was told I have a rod knock and the only thing to do is to replace the engine. Since it's still under warranty, that seems like the logical solution. The local independent subaru repair shop, said they cannot get the warranty to go thru because the heat tabs that are placed on the new engine block have melted, indicating that the engine was overheated.

 

They told me they don't know what to do, because the thermostat is good, the coolant looks good, the oil looked good, etc. Everything has been maintained. They'd really like to get it warrantied, but cannot get around the melted heat tab issue.

 

I have no idea when it overheated. It has never failed/steam coming out of the hood at all. One time about 1.5 years ago I was driving up a steep hill and noticed the heat wasn't working. I pulled over, checked the coolant, there was none in the res, so I let the car sit there all day and cool down. The gauge was above the center but not yet to the H.

 

I coasted back downhill because luckily there is an autopart store 2 miles (steep downhill) away. I watched the thermo the whole time and it never rose, as I wasn't using the gas. I added coolant and never had a problem again. Drove all over the place for 1.5 years after this incident. It's the only thing I can think of.

 

Now, with the rod knock, the engine will soon fail. They are sympathetic and will put in a new one at no profit ($3K). I am a poor grad student and haven't even paid off the car yet (deferred loan).

 

What do I do? The rest of the car is in great shape. Any buyers?

Just looking for some consolation, or something.

 

Hello,

Just thought I'd put my two cents in, since I am in a simillar Boat as u;

My '99 Forester was recently ( after $ 500.00 of investigation) diagnosed with the deep rod noise. The car has 132000. Miles so it doesn't owe me much, but still when the time comes I will replace the engine with a rebuild. The shops tell me that it costs about the same to tear down the engine and replace the rods, however that is just the rods whereas with a good rebuild everything has been gone through.CCR Quated me a price of $ 3400. with echange for an engine assembly.

My car sounds like a Diesel, but runs powerfully, and doesn't use any fluids as of yet; thus, I have decided to run it unitll it drops , and If I go out of town I rent from enterprise.

Best of luck with your predicament; You might also consider the Better Business Bureau, furthermore they do take sides. I was pleasantly surprised when they helped me retreive $200.00 last year from a mail order company.

John

[tcspeer]

If you got help from the B.B.B. you are lucky ussally they just provide information. You must have been dealing with a mail order company that was really bad for them to help you, glad you have got help from them I never have got much out of them.

Hello,

Just thought I'd put my two cents in, since I am in a simillar Boat as u;

My '99 Forester was recently ( after $ 500.00 of investigation) diagnosed with the deep rod noise. The car has 132000. Miles so it doesn't owe me much, but still when the time comes I will replace the engine with a rebuild. The shops tell me that it costs about the same to tear down the engine and replace the rods, however that is just the rods whereas with a good rebuild everything has been gone through.CCR Quated me a price of $ 3400. with echange for an engine assembly.

My car sounds like a Diesel, but runs powerfully, and doesn't use any fluids as of yet; thus, I have decided to run it unitll it drops , and If I go out of town I rent from enterprise.

Best of luck with your predicament; You might also consider the Better Business Bureau, furthermore they do take sides. I was pleasantly surprised when they helped me retreive $200.00 last year from a mail order company.

John

[nipper]

See, it never really "failed". I took it in because I just started hearing the knocking. The only time there was an issue with possibly overheating was 1.5 years ago. That was roughly 2 months after it was installed. I noticed it was a little low in coolant, added some and the temp never went up again.

 

91 sedan is the lady's.

 

ok you need to fight. Since you didnt overheat the engine, you need to get an oil analysis to prove that the oil was not cooked. Also stick to your story and if it is a subaru warrenty engine, get after subaru.

 

 

nipper

[jon38iowa]

If you got help from the B.B.B. you are lucky ussally they just provide information. You must have been dealing with a mail order company that was really bad for them to help you, glad you have got help from them I never have got much out of them.

Indeed I was very surprised! But what have you got to lose, a few calls and a nicely worded letter. I would call the BBB in the local area of where you purchased your engine.

John