Engine 2. down the drain?

[tcspeer]

The one time I dealt with them I got off on the wrong foot to start with. That may be why they was not much help for me.

Indeed I was very surprised! But what have you got to lose, a few calls and a nicely worded letter. I would call the BBB in the local area of where you purchased your engine.

John

[jluther]

So how strict are the warranties? If I've gone over the 24K (I think it was right at 24K, maybe a thousand on either side) or the 2 years (I think I still have a few months for that) or if I didn't get an oil change at exactly 3K intervals (isn't that a little unnecessary, I did at or below every 4K), and the heat tabs melted.

 

Would there still be a chance?

[nipper]

So how strict are the warranties? If I've gone over the 24K (I think it was right at 24K, maybe a thousand on either side) or the 2 years (I think I still have a few months for that) or if I didn't get an oil change at exactly 3K intervals (isn't that a little unnecessary, I did at or below every 4K), and the heat tabs melted.

 

Would there still be a chance?

 

can be very strict, depends upon who is more bull headed and makes more noise.

Oil change intervals are what the mfg recomends, they dont have to by clockwork, but if the engine is under warrenty and the recomendation is 3K usually do before 4k. Doing proper oil changes is cheap insurance against a blown engine.

 

Your going to have to really fight this one. You may get nothing better then a compromise.

 

nipper

[cookie]

I've had more trouble with overheating screwing up a piston than a rod. If the tabs melted it did get hot but that may not matter if you go to court. As long as you kept antifreeze in it and the oil changed (and in it) the judge might rule in your favor.

I'd have to say you don't have much to lose by trying to get compensated for it, but it would be very good if you have a paper trail of service.

I got free head gaskets from Subaru but I had a full file of service reciepts and had the work performed at the dealership. I had no warranty at all as I bout the car used with near 100,000 miles. Luckily for me Subaru covered my model.

[brus brother]

Hopefully the mileage and months were good otherwise your climb is uphill. While you can say you did the oil yourself at every 250 miles, there is less wiggle room when it comes to a clock or calendar. Warranties are meant to absorb some liability but beyond a compromise for customer relations, they needn't allow much consideration under the "agreement". Hope you slid under the limbo bar.

So how strict are the warranties? If I've gone over the 24K (I think it was right at 24K, maybe a thousand on either side) or the 2 years (I think I still have a few months for that) or if I didn't get an oil change at exactly 3K intervals (isn't that a little unnecessary, I did at or below every 4K), and the heat tabs melted.

 

Would there still be a chance?

[johnceggleston]

the shop has already admitted fault by their willingness to replace at a discount. it sounds like the heat tabs thing keeps them from being reimbursed by some one , subaru? maybe. keep pushing, get a law student to help. you did nothing wrong, everything right, and the engine failed. keep trying, it will be the easiest 3000$ you ever earn/save!!!

 

good luck.

 

Hopefully the mileage and months were good otherwise your climb is uphill. While you can say you did the oil yourself at every 250 miles, there is less wiggle room when it comes to a clock or calendar. Warranties are meant to absorb some liability but beyond a compromise for customer relations, they needn't allow much consideration under the "agreement". Hope you slid under the limbo bar.

[jluther]

Just talked to the shop again, and they said it's a 1/1000th of an inch of slack in the main bearing of the crankshaft. The rod goes up and as it's about to make the turn back, the bearing has slack makes the knock.

 

He said if I ran 50 weight oil, it'd probably run another year as is, if I don't stress the engine up hills or whatever. I live in Colorado, all I see are hills. I live here for the hills.

 

He said he can't find fault in anything. He can't pin it down to something they did wrong or anything. All the parts seem to work okay, it doesn't overheat, we went thru the one scenario 15 months ago and he said it should have been okay on that.

 

He just knows when they send the engine back to Subaru, they won't reimburse their shop when they see the heat tabs.

 

They said they'd give me $1500 for the car if it had a good title, but the title is a salvage title (I bought the car from their used car lot originally, because they buy wrecked cars and fix and sell them, sometimes with salvage titles).

[johnceggleston]

i bought a 97 obw with "engine noise - will need engine work". mechanic said it was a wrist pin, wrote it down on the ket tag. turns out its piston slap. i'm still driving it 10k mi. so far. the dealer who sold it (not subaru) didn't know what they were talking about. ask your guy about piston slap. there is an old thread or link that tells a way to test for and isolate piston slap. try searching "piston slap" or "wrist pin".

 

either way piston slap or rod knock, it should be under warranty. now your fight is with subaru. call them up and start talking. what have you got to loose!!!!????

 

i don't know at what temp those tabs go at, but if it happened in the first 2 months, it's their fault!!!!!

 

good luck, john

 

 

 

Just talked to the shop again, and they said it's a 1/1000th of an inch of slack in the main bearing of the crankshaft. The rod goes up and as it's about to make the turn back, the bearing has slack makes the knock.

 

He said if I ran 50 weight oil, it'd probably run another year as is, if I don't stress the engine up hills or whatever. I live in Colorado, all I see are hills. I live here for the hills.

 

He said he can't find fault in anything. He can't pin it down to something they did wrong or anything. All the parts seem to work okay, it doesn't overheat, we went thru the one scenario 15 months ago and he said it should have been okay on that.

 

He just knows when they send the engine back to Subaru, they won't reimburse their shop when they see the heat tabs.

 

They said they'd give me $1500 for the car if it had a good title, but the title is a salvage title (I bought the car from their used car lot originally, because they buy wrecked cars and fix and sell them, sometimes with salvage titles).

[skizix]

Faulty dash temp guage seems possible. On my '90, right after I got it, the water pump crapped the bed while under big load (loaded down, going up a very long hill -- didn't notice right away).

 

Car overheated, temp guage was fully pegged at "H", big time. Coolant was leaking all over the place, but not a ton of steam, didn't blow the radiator cap, and after cooling down, driving a short distance at a time ('till temp went up)...repeat a few times... I was able to limp back to town.

 

Replaced the water pump and nothing else, and drove that excellent rig for another 120,000 miles with zero problems (recently sold it).

 

Different engine, yes, but either your temp guage was out of whack, or your overheating experience does not seem like it should have outright killed the engine (see nippers early comments).

 

BTW did not read entire thread, so hopefully this is still relevant.

[jluther]

It is relevant and thanks for your reply.

 

who exactly would I start talking to? I have had a fair share of talking with the shop and they won't budge. However, I can't get him to call Subaru and ask them what they think of the situation.

 

Super Rupair's a pretty good shop for those of you in CO, right?

I don't think they're out to get me. And I imagine that they read this forum, at least one of the mechanics has to.

[skizix]

I've had multiple horrible experiences @ Superupair. It's a big shop (biggest all-sube in the nation, I believe). Most of the folks there are cool, but the mechs there are independent contractors, and, well...some are better than others. I will never go there again, except for parts. If you do go there, insist on talking to the shop foreman. Can't remember his name, but he's a real solid guy. Won't go into detail (quivering w/ bad memories as it is), but...I'm dead serious: I'll never have work done there again, ever, EVER! Not once has my bill come in at or under estimate, and that is when things were GOOD.

 

Through owning five subes whilst living in Boulder...best sube shop I've ever been to, most honest and knowledgeable mechs of any kind, by far, I've ever come across, are Mobile Mechanics in Golden. That may not be useful to you, but they are most def'y the SHIZ. Can't say enough good things about them. Most visits, they've tried to talk me out of work I thought I needed but didn't, nearly every time they come in under estimate...etc., etc. They know Subes (being all they work on) extremely well, and are overflowing with integrity. Shiz. At the very least, you might call them for advice w/ your predicament. They'll at least give you a straight up answer about what is fair.

 

If you're talking about warrantee service, however, you'll need a dealer. I rarely choose to mess w/ dealers (being a used car type, I would only go to a dealer for things where I've no choice), but in Boulder, I've had a good experience a couple of times with Flatirons Subaru, out on Arapahoe + Cherryvale. Good folks and I recommend them.

 

Good luck.

[ccrinc]

I second Buddy at Mobile Mechanic. Truly good, honest, knowledgeable guy.

 

Now, for the Subaru thing. You might try calling Greg Kvatsak at Elway Subaru West. He's the parts manager and if there's any way Subaru will warranty the block, he'll find it.

 

(Incidentally, overheating can and does damage the rod bearings. That one incidence seems to be a stretch though.)

 

Emily

http://www.ccrengines.com

[OB99W]

I've been following this thread from the beginning; here's my take on it, based on what's been reported, for what it's worth .

 

The "overheating" incident occured sometime about 15 months or 1.5 years ago (both times have been mentioned); that was about two months after the new engine installation. About 24,000 miles have been put on the engine, which means (by my rough estimation) that about 20,000 miles have been added since the "overheating". So...

 

1) If the year-plus ago overheating was the cause of the rod bearing "problem" (1/1000th inch clearance is excessive? What would they like, zero clearance :-\ ??), I would have expected it to have surfaced before 20,000 additional miles.

 

2) If there has been no subsequent loss of coolant since the incident 2 months after installation, the shop likely didn't properly fill the cooling system at the time of engine installation. Therefore, the melted heat tabs may be their fault, explaining why they don't want to contact Subaru about a claim.

 

Some things seemingly just aren't "adding up". An independent evaluation of the situation by a trustworthy shop is probably the best thing to consider at this time.

[jon38iowa]

I've been following this thread from the beginning; here's my take on it, based on what's been reported, for what it's worth .

 

The "overheating" incident occured sometime about 15 months or 1.5 years ago (both times have been mentioned); that was about two months after the new engine installation. About 24,000 miles have been put on the engine, which means (by my rough estimation) that about 20,000 miles have been added since the "overheating". So...

 

1) If the year-plus ago overheating was the cause of the rod bearing "problem" (1/1000th inch clearance is excessive? What would they like, zero clearance :-\ ??), I would have expected it to have surfaced before 20,000 additional miles.

 

2) If there has been no subsequent loss of coolant since the incident 2 months after installation, the shop likely didn't properly fill the cooling system at the time of engine installation. Therefore, the melted heat tabs may be their fault, explaining why they don't want to contact Subaru about a claim.

 

Some things seemingly just aren't "adding up". An independent evaluation of the situation by a trustworthy shop is probably the best thing to consider at this time.

 

Hi Again:

I would agree with a previous post; Call Subaru yourself , moreover, at this point you can only gain. I find the problems your experiencing ( based on what you paid for replacement) unacceptable at this mileage and

I'll bet others would as well .

John

[jluther]

So I called around to a few places that put in Subaru engines and explained my situation. Everyone is encouraging pursuing this farther but all think that since it's written in the warranty they'll probably not bend.

 

One shop claims that they can put in new cranks, main bearing, connecting rod, etc but leave the short block in there. He says he'll give me a special deal on all of this and warranty it for a year no questions asked for $1100.

 

This is without seeing the car and based on my best descriptions.

 

I still think it's not my fault. I don't know who's fault it is, but it's not mine, and people need to stand behind their work and products.

[jon38iowa]

So I called around to a few places that put in Subaru engines and explained my situation. Everyone is encouraging pursuing this farther but all think that since it's written in the warranty they'll probably not bend.

 

One shop claims that they can put in new cranks, main bearing, connecting rod, etc but leave the short block in there. He says he'll give me a special deal on all of this and warranty it for a year no questions asked for $1100.

 

This is without seeing the car and based on my best descriptions.

 

I still think it's not my fault. I don't know who's fault it is, but it's not mine, and people need to stand behind their work and products.

 

Sad to say, but in this world the consumer has to be on the defensive; You have learned a valuable (and unjust) lesson.

Having learned a few my myself, I keep all records, follow warranties to the letter, and communicate timely ( in writting) with any problems- keeping my paper trail.

John

[vic/se]

So I called around to a few places that put in Subaru engines and explained my situation. Everyone is encouraging pursuing this farther but all think that since it's written in the warranty they'll probably not bend.

 

One shop claims that they can put in new cranks, main bearing, connecting rod, etc but leave the short block in there. He says he'll give me a special deal on all of this and warranty it for a year no questions asked for $1100.

 

This is without seeing the car and based on my best descriptions.

 

I still think it's not my fault. I don't know who's fault it is, but it's not mine, and people need to stand behind their work and products.

 

I think it's the shop's fault. They should mesure every part upon assembly even if it's a new block....and as oil change interval you're ok.....that's what Subaru recommends for sever service! (6000km or 3700mi)

[jluther]

Update:

 

I wrote them a letter explaining exactly how I feel. They seem sympathetic. The gen. manager told my girlfriend that he wanted us both to come in and talk to them in person. The GM, shop foreman, and customer service manager all met with us after close on a Friday afternoon.

 

The outcome was they'd split the cost of whatever I want to do. New engine for $2200 (3 year, 36k), Engine from a rear ended Forrester with 84K for $1300 (6 mon, 6K) , or they'd buy my car.

 

 

Not the best outcome, but still better. I'm still not sure which option I'll go with though..

[tcspeer]

It sounds like you have done well. Did you mail your letter certified with a return receipt? Remember if you end up in court you need a paper trail and the court will not question your correspondence if it is certified mail. If not the other party can just say he never tried to settle this with us, we didn't even know he had a problem until we was informed to show up at court.

Update:

 

I wrote them a letter explaining exactly how I feel. They seem sympathetic. The gen. manager told my girlfriend that he wanted us both to come in and talk to them in person. The GM, shop foreman, and customer service manager all met with us after close on a Friday afternoon.

 

The outcome was they'd split the cost of whatever I want to do. New engine for $2200 (3 year, 36k), Engine from a rear ended Forrester with 84K for $1300 (6 mon, 6K) , or they'd buy my car.

 

 

Not the best outcome, but still better. I'm still not sure which option I'll go with though..

[johnceggleston]

i went back and reviewed your story, correct me if i'm wrong:

 

you bought a replacement short block retail price $4500

it fails, and they offer you a replacement at their cost (no profit) $3000

you write a letter and sit down and talk they offer to split the retail price, your half $2200

 

i would see if you can get them to split the no profit price. the 4500 price has 1500 profit in it. if you pay 2200 their cost is $800. does that sound fair??

 

also, every time you negotiate with them the price gets lower. keep up the good work. keep pushing them. they know you have a claim and they made a mistake or they would not offer anything.

 

worst case senario, they quit talking and say "so sue me".

 

or sell them the car? what will they buy it for.? tell them you want what you owe.

 

another possibility, you provide the engine, they put it in for free. this allows you to shop for the engine . you can buy a used one for cheap, less money, more risk. but people do it all the time. i bought a wrecked 96 leg wagon for 400$. good engine, good trans, 125K.

 

good luck

[Martinjmpr]

Jluther: It would be useful to know exactly what mileage the new engine was installed at and exactly what mileage it was at when it failed. If it was over 24,000 miles, then make the best deal you can with the repair shop, because if the warranty was for 24,000 miles and the engine failed at 24,000.001 miles, then you're screwed. Your warranty has expired.

 

If it was under 24,000 miles it is under warranty and I'd fight tooth and nail. You paid for a warranty, they are bound to honor it.

 

You mentioned that "subaru" wouldn't honor the warranty. The critical question is who is it that granted you the warranty? Was it Subaru (i.e. work done at an authorized, franchised Subaru dealer) or was it Super Rupair, which AFAIK is not an authorized Subaru dealer? If your warranty was with Super Rupair, and they're telling you that Subaru of America won't honor the warranty, then so what? Your warranty is a contract with Super Rupair, not with SoA. If they have difficulty getting recovery from SoA, that's not your problem, it's theirs.

 

Google "colorado small claims court." I believe you can file a suit for less than $50 for disputes up to $7000.

 

If you need assistance, PM me. I'm a lawyer in Colorado.

[jluther]

I bought the car with 94K miles, salvage title, rebuilt.

 

Idler broke and new engine installed at 119K. (At the time, I didn't know timing belts, and never replaced it, at which time they would have noticed the failing idler, maybe).

 

This engine started knocking at 145K, 26K after the install, and with melted heat tabs. It directly says in the warranty that heat tabs cannot be melted, oil must be changed every 3,000 miles, and be within 2 years and 24K.

 

Oil was changed at exactly 3750 intervals, give or take 100 miles. They commended me on that. But it's still over what the contract warranty says.

We're slightly over 24K, which isn't too big of a deal, they originally said, but they cannot get past the heat tabs.

 

To me it seems I have a warranty thru them and only them, but they have a warranty thru SoA. So if SoA won't take it back because of the heat tabs, they wouldn't do the swap for free.

 

I agree about the profit factor still being in there. It sucks.

I think I'm going to go with the 84K used engine from a rear ended forrester ($1300 installed). Hopefully they'll replace the timing belt and they said they'd do the head gasket work for free. The shop foreman said he'd drive it home and back to work (50 miles) just to make sure every thing is done correctly and it's running properly.

[tcspeer]

I agree I would go with that offer, I fought in court nearly a year with the problem I had and it is not fun. I was never offered a compromise before, and even after the year through the court the compromise was about all I won.

I bought the car with 94K miles, salvage title, rebuilt.

 

Idler broke and new engine installed at 119K. (At the time, I didn't know timing belts, and never replaced it, at which time they would have noticed the failing idler, maybe).

 

This engine started knocking at 145K, 26K after the install, and with melted heat tabs. It directly says in the warranty that heat tabs cannot be melted, oil must be changed every 3,000 miles, and be within 2 years and 24K.

 

Oil was changed at exactly 3750 intervals, give or take 100 miles. They commended me on that. But it's still over what the contract warranty says.

We're slightly over 24K, which isn't too big of a deal, they originally said, but they cannot get past the heat tabs.

 

To me it seems I have a warranty thru them and only them, but they have a warranty thru SoA. So if SoA won't take it back because of the heat tabs, they wouldn't do the swap for free.

 

I agree about the profit factor still being in there. It sucks.

I think I'm going to go with the 84K used engine from a rear ended forrester ($1300 installed). Hopefully they'll replace the timing belt and they said they'd do the head gasket work for free. The shop foreman said he'd drive it home and back to work (50 miles) just to make sure every thing is done correctly and it's running properly.