subaroo808 Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Ok here goes... I have a 96 legacy 2.2 ej. Ive known the clutch has been slipping for a while and it has been getting worse Ive been driving it for a week or two pretty much without the clutch. Well yesterday while driving it the timing belt broke. No problem it broke just down the road from my house so I towed it home, I had a timing belt to put on so I did that this morning. Well now the car wont start I double checked the timing marks and everything looks good. When I try to start it you can hear the starter spinning, its turning the crank (it just seems like its not spinning as fast as the starter). So I guess my question is...would the clutch have anything to do with the starter not engaging all the way?? or maybe I still dont have the timing right on?? it looks like its right. Im just lost as to whats going on. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Im pretty new at working on Subs. The only reason Ive been able to do anything to it is because of this board. -Thanks Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Bet you used the wrong marks to do the timing belt. Just make sure the notches on the tooth on the backside of the crank sprocket, and the notches on the outer lip of the cam sprockets, are lined up with the marks on the timing belt, and you are all set to go. You don't need to pay attention to anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Hopefully this is helpful, I thought about this post while re-reading one of the EndWrench article on T-belts: Identifix often gets calls from techs stumped on a nostart with supposedly all the magic ingredients: Spark, fuel, and compression at 110 psi.The problem is a skipped belt. A properly timed car will typically crank out 175 psi. Two teeth off will drop it to around 110 and the engine won’t start.You might want to think about checking ignition timing while cranking the engine. Note that the arrows on the cam sprockets are for piston position, not valve timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Hopefully this is helpful, I thought about this post while re-reading one of the EndWrench article on T-belts: Note that the arrows on the cam sprockets are for piston position, not valve timing. That article should go into the USRM....great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaroo808 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Thank you for your replies. I was thinking yesterday that maybe it was the starter because when I first tried it, it sounded strange like it was spinning fast or not engaging. But I pulled and checked it and it seems to be working fine. Im about to go out and pull the belt and make sure its all right. Im just confused because The only thing I did was replace the belt after it broke and it started prior to that. I dont know I guess try try until I get it:) . Bet you used the wrong marks to do the timing belt. Its funny that you say that. Just a couple weeks ago I was messing around and had the timing belt off of my 90 Legacy. I put it back together and wouldnt start. I finally realized that I had it lined up with the wrong mark. (had it lined up with an arrow on the gear the belt rides on rather than the mark on the back of the crank sproket). Well Im going to go try again. Thank you again for your help. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaroo808 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 I rechecked the timing and it looks like its as good as it gets. You can hear the starter spin and the timing belt moves when you turn the key but it sounds like the starter is spinning faster than normal. I said earlier I was driving it without the clutch for a while. To get it to go I had to start by putting it in 1st, pressing the clutch pedal in and then turning the key, which made it jerk...but start, then I shifted it into the other gears without pressing the clutch pedal at all. Im wondering if starting (and driving) it that way damaged the flywheel or some other internals? The splines on the starter all looked to be intact Any Thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaroo808 Posted September 13, 2006 Author Share Posted September 13, 2006 I took the car to a mechanic. He seemed to think the timing was not correct and wanted to try a new belt (when it broke I took one off my other car to try). I told him that I had heard that if the belt breaks while driving it can bend or break a valve or rod?? He said that he didnt think that applied to Subarus, and that the belt was just not on right. Well....he tried a new belt and still nothing:banghead: all it does is spin and not even sound like its trying to start. Im just hoping that someone here has had the same thing happen or can advise me on maybe what the problem might be. I know the guy is a good mechanic and most likely can get it running but I just wanted to possibly get some answers so I dont go broke while he is trying to figure it out. Thanks Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 The bending of valves occurs on the engines built after 96 (ie 97 and on). You didn't break anything when you lost the timing belt. I wonder if you don't have spark or fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I rechecked the timing and it looks like its as good as it gets. You can hear the starter spin and the timing belt moves when you turn the key but it sounds like the starter is spinning faster than normal. I said earlier I was driving it without the clutch for a while. To get it to go I had to start by putting it in 1st, pressing the clutch pedal in and then turning the key, which made it jerk...but start, then I shifted it into the other gears without pressing the clutch pedal at all. Im wondering if starting (and driving) it that way damaged the flywheel or some other internals? The splines on the starter all looked to be intact Any Thoughts. If the starter is spinning faster then normal, and the belts are turning, then the starter is working. High speed cranking means no compression. If you think the timing belt is right, you need to do a compression test. Also make sure you have spark right now. Next is make sure thet the crank and cam sensors are working, but im still betting on the timing being off. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Another thing that can happen when you toss a belt could be that the crank trigger is damaged. Is the back of the pulley in good condition and all the wires are on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaroo808 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 I wanted to give a new update to a old problem. I have been out of town working and my car has been at the mechanic for almost two months "getting fixed". Turns out that no matter what is or is not supposed to happen to a 96 SH&^% happens . Because it toasted the valves. The only thing I can think of is maybe its a "late model" 96 and maybe got the next years engine?? I dont know. I had him take the heads to a machine shop to check them out and replace the valves, got them back and they were all good "looked brand new" he put it all back together, I also had him replace my clutch fork "it had a big crack in it". Well he called and said it was ready so I went and picked it up and on the way home it was making a funky kind of ticking noise coming from what sounds like in the trans. You can feel it in the stick and when you shift or put in the clutch and coast it gets considerably worse. I called him and told him about it and he said bring it back, so tomorrow after work Im going to take it back and have him look at it. Im just wondering what might cause that to happen:confused: Im hoping its something easy. just maybe they didnt put something back on right and hope nothing is broken and needing replaced. Anyway Thats enough of my whining for now:( I just wanted to vent a litttle and was just hoping someone might have some idea of what might be going on so I have something to tell him to look for instead of him "looking for it" himself. ~Aloha Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hm well that doesn't sound like fun! When you say 'toasted' do you mean the valves were scorched, like esp. the exhaust valves? Or do you mean they were bent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaroo808 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 They were bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 They were bent. Then your car must be a weird unicorn. I'm 99.9% certain that interference in Legacy engines happened in 1997. Perhaps your engine was replaced with a newer interference style engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaroo808 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 Then your car must be a weird unicorn. I'm 99.9% certain that interference in Legacy engines happened in 1997. Perhaps your engine was replaced with a newer interference style engine. Thats what Im starting to think. of course my car has to be one of those "special" ones with "special needs" :-\ I dont know... I have been told exactly what you are saying by many people now. I dont think the engine was replaced. I was just kinda thinking that maybe it was made late in 96 and got a 97 engine??? Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Thats what Im starting to think. of course my car has to be one of those "special" ones with "special needs" :-\ I dont know... I have been told exactly what you are saying by many people now. I dont think the engine was replaced. I was just kinda thinking that maybe it was made late in 96 and got a 97 engine??? Jason Under the right (or wrong) circumstances, you can bend vavles on a non interfernce engine. It jsut depends upon the circumstances inside the engine at the time the timing belt decide to let lose. Also it doesnt take much to of a bend to stick a valve open. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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