bgd73 Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I have changed my little ea82 ever so slightly in my 93 2wd 5spd. It takes off like a bat out of hell even on the 30mm spfi. I hope I can explain myself in modern english.... for my question. Stomping on throttle from first to whatever is an easily high revving go.. without clutch slip. My strangeness is this-- If I take off slower, I know without a doubt my loyale is doing the same result and it is related to the tranny, not the clutch. It's a rubbery sling shot type feeling some of my higher powered v8 swaps used to return. Upon leveling off , such as the highway I am the first 10-20 miles slowly letting off the throttle for the same speed, like top end gets taller. My DL was even more extreme, hitting 80 at 3000 rpm and fuel mileage unheard of, uphills downhills etc., it just stayed there. Changing fluid doesn't do a thing. Is it tranny design, or can these trannies be done/failing in this manner? I have assumed, they aren't meant to exceed the oem ea82 torque curve without this disturbance. It was rather discouraging to fugure this out, as I am not inspired to make any more power with this driveline.Anyone relate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Kidding aside, I really don't know what you're trying to explain... Are you trying to say that with less throttle, the clutch slips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Kidding aside, I really don't know what you're trying to explain... Are you trying to say that with less throttle, the clutch slips? It is torque related - engine effort in, final result to the ground. No clutch slip- it is in milliseconds at a time I am sure.Picture what I am saying in slow motion... Adding roof rack rails conquered alot of it on a sedan.. I don't feel it is hitting the ground hard enough for the throttle given. Harder motor mounts on my 2wd? Even a new exhaust system put more to the ground just for the pipes existance. My dl , which petrified, somewhere in the 15 year old range, had incredible results about this "sponge" for its last 3 years,until it broke in front of the seats, to the left and right of transmission (I mean self destructed with one swing of a hammer- "flintstone mobile" instantly) .I couldn't even begin to repair the movement as a result - it even left a large concave dimple in the roof above my head forever- and it was only n/a carbed! Does anyone know what I mean yet? something pliable/forgiving eats engine power- of course it is running decent to get this. I am wondering what else can be done to stiffen engine to body or just the body.Motor mounts bouncing too much could be a big helper to stiffen at the expense of engine in my lap kinda ride....:-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoscowSubaruDude Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Honestly, I may be wrong, but I think you just described what millions of Subaru owners already have experienced, and have come up with a term for it... Gutless. However, if you've overcome the 'gutless' part, then you might look into tire slip. Your motor/tranny mounts aren't going to 'sponge' power... they move to their extreme, and stay there for the duration of the force applied. I usually have a little bit of tire burnage going on during in-town driving... because I drive like a maniac. That's really the only thing I can think of, and it's more than you've gotten so far, but maybe an expert will reply. Good luck with it, I wanna know what the problem was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 It is most likely the mounts. the 2wd really wants to move into other angles. This subject brought me back to high school in relation to a newer loyale (only a few years old then). A hell trip through the woods took the right rear tranny mount out badly. He banged it back into shape and somehow had a hockey puck(?) replacing it. - It became one of the crazier throttle responding loyales (just one hacked stiff mount in exactly the correct place). They do *eat* at hard dispersal and keep it that way through the entire curve- (especially 2wd). I just looked on the web at subautoparts.com - found three different motor mounts for xt6-xt-loyale all with same part number and 2 different prices. Anyone know if they are proven different? I even looked up hockey pucks . I do have this unique resin that may fill a drilled existing mount, then put it back together ("plastic weld" - almost pliable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 It's a rubbery sling shot type feeling some of my higher powered v8 swaps used to return. Upon leveling off , such as the highway I am the first 10-20 miles slowly letting off the throttle for the same speed My Honduh does it too, In my case its a combination of the IAV opening and the ECU adjusting everything so the engine doesnt need as high a throttle setting for 100kph. Theory proven by holding the throttle open keeping the RPM at 2500, after 10 seconds it will have creeped up to almost 2800 without changing throttle position. And i have NO idea if this applies to a Subaru.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 My Honduh does it too, In my case its a combination of the IAV opening and the ECU adjusting everything so the engine doesnt need as high a throttle setting for 100kph. Theory proven by holding the throttle open keeping the RPM at 2500, after 10 seconds it will have creeped up to almost 2800 without changing throttle position. And i have NO idea if this applies to a Subaru.... It is physical torque related. On the honda I could see it taking awhile ecu/gadgets. On the sube its 140 ft lbs @ 2800 in , say, .0005 ms and everything else has to catch up with it. Interesting post tho, it is exactly on the other end of a hondas working towards what a boxer snaps to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 He banged it back into shape and somehow had a hockey puck(?) replacing it. .......... I do have this unique resin that may fill a drilled existing mount, then put it back together ("plastic weld" - almost pliable) OK, for starters, yah he just probly drilled thru the puck, and threaded a bolt or two thru it and used it like a bushing between the metal flanges.. or whatever, i dont think ive looked at my motor mounts enough to know how theyre built. but i had a friend, who had a friend who lifted his truck this way. Unfortunately, as bushings do, (especially uber-redneck ones like this,) they wear. This gentlman actually had the misfortune of having to cancel plans with a lady friend because he had to change the hockey pucks on his truck. she dumped him. Second off, the home made motor mount.. my little brothers done it. it worked good. i dont know if its still in use or not, but i _think_ so, and the car is a civic CRX hf with a crx SI driveline in it (read: 1700lb curb weight, ~130? hp or more, good torque, nice gearbox.. sweet little car, well balanced and everything.. the only honda whose songs i will sing.) so it gets/got driven. I know it worked, well, AT LEAST for a while, and i think is still doing so. try it. I personally think that each of us have a similar sort of neurosis about trying to eek that power we feel is in there out somehow.... and you are probably a little right. but youre probably a little S O L too.. if you replace your motor mounts, im sure you will see better response.. but dont forget you are also building your car to your specs no subarus. its no longer a loyale.. its your loyale.. and when you get right down to it, THAT is the single most amazingly spectacular fact about these bloody cars! they are bases, models to start our work on.. ten, fifteen, twenty years after rolling out of a factory!! that has always really been my major test for just about any vehicle.. (also one of the things i like about the CRX) "I mean, its all well and good what the manufacturer did to your car.. but I like what I did to mine better." <---- THATS what im getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 I'm not going for an extreme... the 2wd manual tranny without rear driveshaft needs attention (from brand new). bounces around realistically, with design that it has a driveshaft (the other engine "sway bar") like most subes. The first time I felt it, I could assume my 4wd with same engine was quicker, until I realized how tight this ea82 is in rpm ranges.It fooled me - straight line grab has got a bending blob slob in 2wd only. It really needs to be stiffened, I targeted tranny mount area, as that is where the driveshaft would normally be.Just one stiff mount on torque side snap (right rear mount) would no doubt conquer alot of what I can't describe enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 The driveshaft has a spline on it where it goes into the tranny. It can't give any stabilizing force to the transmission. If you're launching in 4wd, it will give rotational force to the tranny, but no up and down. The feeling of increasing power in a gear is because of the power curve on the engine. You do not have all the power all the time at all the RPM ranges. The power builds as you rev the engine up in the same gear, hence the pulling harder the longer you have it at WOT. There's nothing wrong, it's normal. If you keep the engine up in the higher rpm's (3k-5k) it'll feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 The driveshaft has a spline on it where it goes into the tranny. It can't give any stabilizing force to the transmission. If you're launching in 4wd, it will give rotational force to the tranny, but no up and down. The feeling of increasing power in a gear is because of the power curve on the engine. You do not have all the power all the time at all the RPM ranges. The power builds as you rev the engine up in the same gear, hence the pulling harder the longer you have it at WOT. There's nothing wrong, it's normal. If you keep the engine up in the higher rpm's (3k-5k) it'll feel better. Thanks.Up and Down movement even on 2wd is very good- it is the side to side torque thump of the boxer I am getting alot in this 2wd. If driveshaft engaged (4wd) there is quite a noticable stabilization- gyroscopic effect (just can't make it a sports car in turns). I have had both 2wd and 4wd models now. Just the driveshafts presence kept the little engine sitting there like a rock. Being a driver that targets torque (uhhm- unlike inline 4 cyl owners ), I broke my 87 dl driveshaft right at the tranny all on this little 90hp engine. It really does do something powerful. I hope to mimick it with stronger rear mounts made with home ingenuity out of original pieces on my 2wd. Just when you think the throttle is a sponge- slowly the coins in the tray start rattling, lights in the rear view mirror start shakin, and that 10 % grade at 2750 rpm is a breeze taken by a locomotive soundin EA82........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 have you considered adding a stabilizer mount at the tail end of the tranny? something on the passenger side that would bolt to the tranny and provide against rotational movement as well as gyroscopic movement? (IE the driveline spinning around when viewed from a birdseye..) I thought thats what you meant in your first reply after my first reply.. but i couldnt be sure, after reading your last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 have you considered adding a stabilizer mount at the tail end of the tranny? something on the passenger side that would bolt to the tranny and provide against rotational movement as well as gyroscopic movement? (IE the driveline spinning around when viewed from a birdseye..) I thought thats what you meant in your first reply after my first reply.. but i couldnt be sure, after reading your last post. yes that is also a good thought... like an old ford inline 6 with that long bar hangin off the back of the tranny, because thier engines balance sucked lol. I have contemplated something similar- but being the engine is really balanced, the tranny mounts stiffened would be the easiest, beneficial. A friend increased stiffness there , unintentionally gaining exactly what I am after- Torque to the ground, if it means stiffening my neck in non-grandma type takeoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 So let me see here, you are going to stiffen the tranny mounts to reduce the torque lost on take off by the transmission moving.... Unless your mounts are completely shot, the box is only going to rotate a few degreees even if you dump the clutch. Theres also that anti-torque bar or whatever its called going from the firewall to the engine to stop it from moving. So you cant be losing that much power. If however you're talking about the *gap* between hitting the gas and the car accelerating (due to all the transmission internals taking the load) then i dont think you can improve it much on a 20 year old car. Even on our 2004 Volvo theres about 10-20 degrees of play in the wheel before the engine side of the driveline starts spinning. Apologies for confusing this topic even more, but i wanna know whats going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testy Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 the few mm's watever is moving is not taking any signifacant initial torque from your car. its milleseconds you cant possible be aware off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 So let me see here, you are going to stiffen the tranny mounts to reduce the torque lost on take off by the transmission moving....Unless your mounts are completely shot, the box is only going to rotate a few degreees even if you dump the clutch. Theres also that anti-torque bar or whatever its called going from the firewall to the engine to stop it from moving. So you cant be losing that much power. If however you're talking about the *gap* between hitting the gas and the car accelerating (due to all the transmission internals taking the load) then i dont think you can improve it much on a 20 year old car. Even on our 2004 Volvo theres about 10-20 degrees of play in the wheel before the engine side of the driveline starts spinning. Apologies for confusing this topic even more, but i wanna know whats going on. Even if it is a good mount front or rear- anyone could grab thier ea82 and shake the engine at least half of the distance of thier tiny 2.64 inch revolution (stroke)- all through motor mount slop. I don't need 50% cushion for the pushin ya know what I mean? The 2wd I would swear eats an entire revolution to take off fast all on good clutch- stopping in time for a perfect physics moment - and away the big 2.64 inch stroker goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testy Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 bolt it straight to the metal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now