Greg55_99 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 So I picked up a refurbished set of heads for my 91 2.2 Legacy. The engine has 130K miles on it. I spent the weekend installing the heads with new gaskets but reused the old timing belt. It still looks good with 40K miles on it. However, now the car won't start. It just spits at me! I figured it was a timing issue so I tore off the timing cover to check the belt. Lo and behold the timing was out 180 degrees. Now I know I was tired when I put this together but I don't think I was THAT tired. Frustrated, put the belt back in the correct position with all of the marks as they shoud be and buttoned it up. Still won't start! Still sounds like an ignition problem. I'm going to tear into it again in the morning. If the belt is out 180 again, what's the problem? I've used two different tensioners. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Have you checked to see if there is spark getting to the plugs? Also check to see if you have the firing order correct and the wires going to the correct cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 [...]I spent the weekend installing the heads with new gaskets but reused the old timing belt. It still looks good with 40K miles on it. However, now the car won't start. It just spits at me! If it "spits", that usually indicates that there's spark, but not the quality or timing of it. I figured it was a timing issue so I tore off the timing cover to check the belt. Lo and behold the timing was out 180 degrees. Now I know I was tired when I put this together but I don't think I was THAT tired. Frustrated, put the belt back in the correct position with all of the marks as they shoud be and buttoned it up. Still won't start! Still sounds like an ignition problem.[...] Since you didn't go into detail, I don't know what procedure you used to ensure correct re-timing, how much disassembly you did, etc. The following two articles have some very useful info, so if you haven't read them fully before, it might be worthwhile. http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/2.2Liter.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/TBeltEWWin05.pdf Note especially info about the relationship between reluctors and position sensor, and the precaution about possible bleed-down of HLAs (Hydraulic Lash Adjusters) if you've moved things a lot. It may also be that when the engine was mistimed and not firing, it flooded. Then it could be difficult to start even with the timing corrected. I'd suggest verifying the belt installation and then trying to start again. The HLAs may require a bit of cranking to pump back up if the've bled down. If there's a possibility of flooding, try cranking with the accelerator pedal floored; that can "unload" any excess fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg55_99 Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 Firing order is correct. It sounds like it's trying to start but won't. Spits, burps. I've turned the engine by hand and it seems to have compression. Let me be a bit more specific. I bought the heads rebuilt, pulled the engine and replaced them. I re-used the original cams making sure they went in the right way on the right sides. When I first tried to start the engine, it burped and nearly backfired several time. That's when I checked the timing belt and found it 180 out. That is, the cams were straight up and the crank pulley arrow was straight down. I didn't think I screwed it up, but, I suppose I did. Last night, I put everything back straight up. I hope I haven't bent any valves. Any ideas? Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 When the timing belts are replaced I think the left side (from front view) is put on first and then the crank is supposed to be rotated one full turn. Then the right belt is put on. If I remember correctly about the procedure one arrow faces down while the other arrow is up. I also seem to remember someone saying that the procedure the Haynes manual uses doesn't mention the crank turn before installing the second belt. I have never changed T-belts myself so I am a little unsure about this. I am just trying to recall info from other posters on this. Edit: OPPS! I think I gave you info on the wrong type of engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 [...]I hope I haven't bent any valves. Any ideas? Pre-1996 2.2 engines are non-interference, so it's very unlikely that you bent valves, especially if the compression seems good. Other than what I suggested above (reading material, etc.), I don't have any other ideas right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Greg, Have you checked the tabs on the crankshaft sprocket that the CAS sensor looks at? Sometimes these tabs get broken off the sprocket and cause a timing problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg55_99 Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 Pre-1996 2.2 engines are non-interference, so it's very unlikely that you bent valves, especially if the compression seems good. Other than what I suggested above (reading material, etc.), I don't have any other ideas right now. Uh oh... the arrow on the crank pulley (Not cam pulley). That's the piston position indicator and NOT the crank alignment indicator? Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 After looking at some info on your engine it shows that when the arrow on the crank spocket is pointed at the reference mark then the #1 piston is at TDC. When the cam spocket arrows are facing up at there marks then the valves are set for #1 cylinder to fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg55_99 Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 Gentlemen! I want to thank everyone here for helping me out. Problem solved! I had used the arrow on the crank pulley to set the cams at TDC. DOH!!! It was the hash mark on the back of the pulley I should have used. Once I'd lined that one up with the cam sprocket marks and put her back together.... Vaaaaaaaaa ROOOOOOOMMMM!!!! So thanks a bunch guys. She runs smooth as silk now. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Gentlemen! I want to thank everyone here for helping me out. Problem solved! I had used the arrow on the crank pulley to set the cams at TDC. DOH!!! It was the hash mark on the back of the pulley I should have used. Once I'd lined that one up with the cam sprocket marks and put her back together.... Vaaaaaaaaa ROOOOOOOMMMM!!!! So thanks a bunch guys. She runs smooth as silk now. Greg You're welcome, and glad to read that you got things running well. The endwrench.com website has a lot of good material, but of course USMB members have some practical knowledge, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Good deal Greg. Glad you go it going and thanks for the feedback. Drive on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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