Davalos Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Last night when I went for a test drive after replacing the EGR Solenoids, I noticed that in about 15 minutes of driving my "Charge" light went on, as well as a few other lights. This happened one other time, when I lost my belts, but it was BAM!! and then LIGHT!! ... this time, it's very faint. If I turn my lights on, the Charge light gets a little brighter, and when relays go on & off, it changes ... is this normal for a subaru? And if so, what are we talking here? Battery is new (6 months), and all I changed was the solenoids... THe charge light is very faint right now, and it starts & runs ... etc. And the meter reads right in the middle ... for the moment. I'm sure this would change in time ... like @ the busiest intersection in town during rush-hour. People with experience at this ... where would you start? If it were my Ford, I'd have a clue where to start. I've found that most things that I used to do on my F150 get me into trouble in my Subaru ... hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 usually that means your getting ac current from your alt, meaning one of the rectifer's diodes went south, i'd change out the alternator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Savage Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Also check your connections on the back of the alt, for corrosion rust ect. but usually when the light comes on there is a problem in the charging circut obviously, most likely the rectifier bridge/diods. Try putting a voltmeter on the battery while its running and check to see the charging voltage. It should be atleast 14 volts, if its lower or much higher then the voltage regulator took a dump which means new alt. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Savage Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Also check your connections on the back of the alt, for corrosion rust ect. but usually when the light comes on there is a problem in the charging circut obviously, most likely the rectifier bridge/diods. Try putting a voltmeter on the battery while its running and check to see the charging voltage. It should be atleast 14 volts, if its lower or much higher then the voltage regulator took a dump which means new alt. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 Connections all look good - don't have a tester ... Hmm ... I wonder if I did anything ... can connecting the green or white terminals (to clear engine codes) fry anything? ... (gulp). With my F150, you can connect the alternator directly to the battery with a cro-bar and a banana peel, and nothing will happen (of course, it STILL won't ever start, hehe!) Also, if I did fry it, I found a $53 dollar one that puts out 60A ... any reason to get a more heavy-duty one? I was planning on some fogs and a better stereo, but this thing has no options like power windows, locks, etc, so I imagine i have plenty of room in there to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 You can take your alternator in to a shop to have it tested (most parts shops will test 'em for free). A faintly glowing charge light is almost always, as mentioned above, a bad diode. That said, I drove a Subaru of mine for about a year with a bad diode, and other than slowly draining the battery when it had sit for a few weeks, it was fine. I'd replace the alternator if it's a daily driver, though. -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 My guess is loose fan belt or loosening crankshaft bolt. The charge light is an indication that the alternator is not putting out power, and there are many causes with the alternator itself being near the top. A glowing light indicates a marginal power production, which could be overheating/going-bad rectifier or regulator. But it could just mean a loose belt or something else not driving the belt well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted September 8, 2006 Author Share Posted September 8, 2006 Well, took the alternator out & had it tested ... came up "Bad" and one of the functions that it failed was the diodes ... Ordered-up the new one (60A), and it should be here by 4pm today ... I hope I hope. Hope the battery didn't get toasty because of it. Anyway, wanted to say "Thanks!" You folks ROCK!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Yeah - while the rest of the subaru is pretty reliable, those older Hitachi alternators don't usually make it much past 100,000 miles. That's Hitachi for ya. But then alternators and starters are like that it seems. I've had toyota, GM, Ford and everything in-between and always about the same mileage for alternators. At least they are SUPER easy to get at on the subaru.... unlike that toyota paseo I did not long ago. Wow did that suck. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 ...Hope the battery didn't get toasty because of it... Might want to let a battery charger top off your battery before putiing in new alt. Lower the stress on the new alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted September 8, 2006 Author Share Posted September 8, 2006 That's Hitachi for ya. But then alternators and starters are like that it seems. I've had toyota, GM, Ford and everything in-between and always about the same mileage for alternators. At least they are SUPER easy to get at on the subaru.... unlike that toyota paseo I did not long ago. Wow did that suck. GD Well, I ended up with a Bosch - or, at least the box said "Bosch". I like their power tools ... Got it in, hooked her up, charged the battery & got that in, went to start it, and "Click". Nuthin. Zero. Just "click" Battery puts out 12.9 volts. TELL me I didn't fry the starter in all this! Come to think of it, where IS the friggin' thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 TELL me I didn't fry the starter in all this! Come to think of it, where IS the friggin' thing? Pretty unlikly. The starter is behind the flywheel housing on top, just under the heater hoses & battery leads. 2 Bolts hold it on. 17mm open end for the lower one - it is no fun to get it srtarted, but yes, you can get the wrench on it once you figure out the 1 way it will work. Top bolt you need 2 14mm wrenches. You need a 12mm for the main 12V wire. The signal from the key is a push on. There are 2 contacts in the starter that a copper disc hits. This connects the power to the motor. One of them erodes faster than the other. I have made new contacts from 1/8" thick copper. Also try tapping the starter with the tire iron - sometimes it will go again, but don't count on it working too many more times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Definately check your ground wire to the engine from the battery, and the power wire to the starter. I've had them rot out from corrosion, and it can be hard to tell. Also the EA82's have a common failure of the ignition switch harness. Basically the way to fix it is to put a relay into the crank circuit. Replaceing the switch doesn't help, as the problem is somewhere in the harness. Probably could track it down, but it's easier (much easier) to just add a relay. Should have had one to begin with. This may or may not be your problem, but I figured it should be mentioned. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 Hmm ... that's a good start (pardon the pun, hehe!) - I was moving both positive & negative cables way around every which way to take the battery out ... boy, they are taped-up with a bunch of wires aren't they?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Check the fusible links in the plastic box mounted on the coolant resevoir. Make sure they are making good connection. It is also possible you blew one out if you didn't remove the battery connections before working on the alternator. As mentioned by someone else, there is a common problem with the ignition switch connector in the steering column. Sometimes the contacts in the connector get burnt due to the high current that runs through them. It is pretty easy to correct with some other new connectors on the wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 Check the fusible links ... Yeah ... I made that mistake when I had to MOVE the alternator to replace the belts a few month's back ... I was careful this time - which is why the wires themselves are suspect to me at this point - I was movin' them around a lot to take OUT the battery. I picked-up a starter just in case ($63 Bosch ... ooochiewa-wa, this is starting to be an expensive weekend!), but I'll start with the wires in the morning when it's light... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 ALSO – what’s the deal with the bracket that holds this guy in (The alternator)? I remember when I changed the belts, I actually had to GRIND DOWN the bracket on the rt. side to get it to fit next to the compressor. I figured it was a ‘these belts need to be stretched’ thing, but now that I think about it, NOW they are stretched, and they make the thing hang even more to the left, hitting the compressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted September 13, 2006 Author Share Posted September 13, 2006 Wow, DaveT - you're not kidding on that 17mm nut ... wow! Still don't have the starter off, but I started with the wires, as suggested. Okay, I have a ?? ... I took the wires from the battery to the engine (ends-up right next to the starter) and then took off the positive cable - both wires look fine to me. No corrosion, nothing that would give me cause for worry. but BOY, someone is serious about protecting these wires! There 's an extra insulation casing around the negative cable There's a currogated casing around the positive cable The Positive & negative, and their respective casings are taped together with enough plastic tape to choke an elephant. Plus, There is a stand-of bracket (not connected in my case) which looks like is mounts to the spare tire support bracket that grabs the whole mess and holds it up in a deliberate routing path. Someone REALLY is looking after these wires. What's the Dilly-Yo? Is that just a really anal-retentive battery cable guy, or is there something I don't know about Subarus and wires? Kinda looks like it's a bad idea to just 'play it safe' and go to my parts store & get a similar gauge & length of starter cable ... Like i said, both of these look good. Any tests I can put these thru now that I have them off, besides clean them up? And if they're good, I next test the key signal wire, yes? I'm saving the starter for last, since as soon as I install the new one, it's not returnable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 You can just use a nice welding wire, or if you like the pre-made replacement cables. The biggest problem with the stock wires is they are aluminium. That's one reason they had to be so big. It also unfortunately means they don't take well to flexing, so often I have found stress cracks in the cable near the ends. Nice big copper wires are best, and I usually end up replaceing them. The whole tape mess, and booties and stuff isn't really needed, it's just there to look nice, and prevent accidental arcing when working under the hood. No mistake tho - that's stock! The other problem that causes the "click no start" is the ignition switch harness. The connector under the dash gets burnt from prolonged starting attempts, or from just cranking too long. It's best to install a relay in this circuit anyway, and just makes sense because it's very easy to run a nice 12 or 14 guage wire through a relay to the start solenoid, and control it from the original switch harness. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 Sweeeeet!!! An 1:12 from start to finish, including removing the spare & bracket, wiring, etc. I put a continuity test on the wires & decided they were ok. Popped everything back in, and POW!!!! Fired-right-up! Sweeeeet! In the 3 days that the Soob was down I went thru $55 in gas in the E350 ... for the same amount of drivin - even at these prices. Daamn, talk about appreciation! So now I should seriously look (from the preventative standpoint) at adding a relay, eh? Where do I go for such a relay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 but BOY, someone is serious about protecting these wires! Someone REALLY is looking after these wires. They are thick, directly connected to the battery, with no current limiting device. What are the cold cranking amps of your battery? A dead short would be considerably higher. That would be bad. Short a battery with a piece of 18 aWG stranded wire: Instant flash fire as insulation vaporizes. most of the strands end up fused together. Somewhere, the wire melts, breaking the circuit. As you go up in wire guage, the flash fire & melt / fusing slows down, but the battery gets hotter. Get big enough wire, and the battery fuses internally, igniting the hydrogen oxegen that has been released by the high rate discharge. Hot flying bits of plastic, lead and acid. Bad. This is why removing the (-) terminal first is the way to make the electrical system safe to work on. You wouldn't want a smallish wrench to get across (+) to GND, especially with your hand on it. If the crimp area is clean, they should be ok. I put grease on the wires / lugs / battery terminals. Still have all original connectors after 16+ years. Side note, none of the battery cables I have are aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted September 19, 2006 Author Share Posted September 19, 2006 So now I should seriously look (from the preventative standpoint) at adding a relay, eh? Where do I go for such a relay? I can't believe I just quoted myself, hehe! That's me eating my own words, maybe? It's weird. I would say 1 in 10 times, when I go to start with the new starter, I get just "click". No rhyme or reason to it, as far as I can tell. I have been parking on inclines just in case, but I can't find anything wrong. Looked at the wires, checked the connections, and all power is up elsewhere. Overnight, warm, cold, no real pattern that I can spot. Time to get that circuit mod going, eh? Will any old relay do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 The problem is most likely due to worn starter solenoid contacts. They are a common ware item and you can replace them for around $10 dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 IIRC, you replaced the starter? I've encountered this problem *mostly* with bad ignition switch wireing. The starter could also be at fualt, but I've always been able to fix the problem with a relay in the crank circuit. Any relay will work, yes. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 davalos::::: BIG TIP goto junkyard find late 80s BMW 3 series look on drivers strut tower under the hood, there should be a relay box with three different relay plugs in it. grab at least one of those plugs, i grabbed several to get the wires i needed. all you need is a four prong relay that fits that plug, look in the bimmer and in any other german/european car.. VWs and jags i think were the other big two, but it could be in any car... find one that has a rating on it, i used a 40 amp but im SURE it doesnt need THAT much. i pocketed it all. you can also find a soob, and go to the relays that are located at the back of the engine bay, in front of the passenger.. if you grab one of those little metal relay mounting tabs you should be able to use that on the plug from the bimmer. when you get the four prong relay, there will probly be a wiring diagram on it.. but the prongs will be numbered 30, 85, 86, and 87. power supply from battery goes to 30, line out to solenoid terminal goes to 87. the line from the switch, and the ground wire, go on either of the other two. terminal 30 is the only one that is pointed in a different direction from the others.. the bottom looks like this ._ | | .| the _ is terminal 30, the two | | side by side are 85 and 86, and the bottom | is 87. ignore the dots, they are there as placeholders to space the lines properly to remove the wires from the relay plugs, you need a skinny little flathead screwdriver (the little "precision" ones with the spinning wheel on the back work great, or an eyeclass screwdriver, that kind of tiny) take the little flathead, and slide it down into the plastic hole, behind the flat side of the spade terminal. this flattens a little retaining tab, and you can then pull the wire out the bottom. take that tab and flew it back out, then pop the wires you want back into place. I made sure i found two high gauge wires in the JY that i could splice onto with my high power wire. this is a GREAT source of relays for retrofitting, because there are three of these little plugs that slide onto a small, slide on covered bracket on the strut tower of the bimmer.. and you can put up to five relays into this little bracket thingy. or three relays and a small fuse block to power them all. guess what i was doing when i found out all this info about the relays?? relaying my start control circuit :-p BTW yer welcome, i just saved you 20 bux. :- ) at least, thats how much a relay kit cost me in my local stores....and who knows what kinda of relay?? im using hella or bosch, i got plenty of spares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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