86subaru Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 can ethanol be used in ea82 spfi motors or ea82 turbo's, there are no stations selling it yet that are close by , just wondering ? the price aleast at the station that do sell it ,is .20 less per gallion , comments ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I've heard it eats rubber. And then I've heard that some people use it in normal cars and it doesn't.. I've also heard it eats alloy. But the Brazilians don't seem to have a problem Question for you, what mix is it? How much percent ethanol? I'd say 10% would be fine no matter what. Might need to tune your timming though because I am pretty sure ethanol is higher octane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 85% ethanol 15% gas , i also heard that mpg will be less , but higher octine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 E85 has a much higher octane rating (around 110?), but its less efficient. You'll get about 20% less per gallon. So as long as the price is lower by more than 20%, you're still saving. But, I don't know if it is safe to run E85 in an 80s FI Subaru. Though, I do hear it runs fine up to about a 30% concentration of ethanol in most cars. That's something to consider too... Of course, the biggest advantage to running ethanol, is it breaks some of the chains between you and the oil companies. (Even though, I must remind you that E85 is 15% gasoline) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 For non-US friends: Current gasoline/ethanol blends in the US are around 90/10% blends. Current vehicles seem to physically handle that without much difficulties. I am not sure the solvent/corrosive issues with higher concentrations of ethanol (methanol has big problems in that area). Ethanol does not so much have a higher octane rating as a higher charge cooling effect. Ethanol has a lower energy density, so more will be needed to provide proper mixture. The SPFI ECU might not allow enough variance from mixture maps to allow a proper mixture on high ratios of ethanol. Speaking of which, I wonder how the ECU and EGO would work with E85: We all talk about mixture being set near stoichiometric, but the EGO actually reacts to free oxygen. My gut feeling is that the amount of free oxygen is what is important, and that stoich is just a calculated number, so EGO/ECU interaction should try to get correct mixture. I figure that since current blends drop my fuel mileage 5-10%, unless the the price discount is greater than 10% I pass it by. And last I heard (admittedly a few years ago), we (USA) still used petroleum to produce ethanol: Fertilizers, farm fuels, processing fuels (takes energy to frement/distill), and distribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 yah, i really think that ethanol as a vehicle fuel is a wash as far as "eliminating our need for oil" It could be great if it were accepted across the board, and maybe in a decade or two it will be, but for my buck, all i think about in terms of fuel choice is A, economic impact from oil expenditure; B, the finite amount of crude reserves on the planet; and C, most importantly, the emissions aspect of it. At the current time, when i add all the factors in my head and weigh them according to my own significance, it is STILL a far more cost effective, emissions effective, and oil effective (so to speak) "green" fuel to convert over to LPG. I may be wrong, but I see too many hints of warnings about this whole "E85" gimmick to trust that its really that much of a departure from status quo. I have heard too many references to US automakers suppressing patents on "green" cars for the last several decades to trust the marketing blitz that is going on about ethanol blends these days. maybe im just a paranoid left-wing nut. i simply refuse to believe anything on television at face value, and often presume something is false simply because TV expected me to believe it was telling the simple truth. Something tells me i am PROBABLY right more often than wrong in that. these marketing schmucks have armies of psychologists on their side telling them how to make us buy their crap. who is on our side teaching us how to see through their BS?? nobody. now, purely scientifically, alcohol is a MUCH more sensible fuel than gasoline and i would never say anything to counter that. If you want to use E85, i applaud you wholeheartedly. I just go further than not believing the hype. I see the hype and frown, and start looking for snake oil. when i cant find the flaw that makes them hype it up, i get REAL worried. Its sort of like buying clothing at an outlet store.. if you find a $100 pair of Ralph Lauren dress pants, and theyre marked $15, and you cant find the problem they had that caused them to wind up in the outlet store.. do you want to buy them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 ok, south of where i live , they sell 85% ethanol 15% gas , for like 1.98 gal, gas here in ohio 2.12 gal right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I have used E85 in both my WRX EJ205 and and in my 88GL EJ82. They both do fine on blends less than 30% E85 by volume. The WRX was run on 100% E85 for over a year using larger injectors and the engine was VERY happy with the fuel. Inspite of looking for problems I have found absolutely none on the WRX. I cut a fuel line apart a few months ago that had been in the car since new, and seen 2 years of E85 blends ranging from 30% - 100%. It looked like it was brand new. I let it dry for a week and then bent it back double so the inside of the split line was on the outside of the bend and there was no checking cracking or softening of the fuel line. Same goes with the fuel injector O-rings. There a quite a few folks around the country now running the late model Subaru's on mixtures of E85 and I have not heard a single problem reported. The actual energy content of E85 is about 72% of gasoline on a volume basis, but the fuel milage DOES NOT drop in proportion to the fuel energy content. E85 is a far more effecient fuel than gasoline, and everyone who has kept records has reported fuel milage of about 90% -92% of the milage they get on gasoline. Yes there is a small drop but not any where near what some of the internet experts would like you to think. Especially on the turbo charged engines it is a good deal. My 88GL has only been running for a couple months on E85 blends, but no problems other than a lean stumble at mixes over 30%. It runs much leaner fuel air mixtures than the WRX so I need to richen it up to make it happy on E85. I think if you have easy access and local prices are in line you will find it a good move. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 E85 has a much higher octane rating (around 110?), but its less efficient. You'll get about 20% less per gallon. So as long as the price is lower by more than 20%, you're still saving. The reason I'd choise ethanol over petrol is for its friendlyness to the environment. Pitty you can't really get it here even though we have one of the biggest sugar industries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 very interesting , thanks again , may try it if it comes around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I've tested E50 (50% Gas and 50% Ethanol) here in Germany last year, and my EA82T MPFI (1989) works bad! He starts up fine, but there was no real power available, acceleration was nearly non-existant. I don't know how it works on carbed models, but I guess, it will work fine. Hmm, I'm should testing this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 A carb has no way of adjusting the mixture, unlike a FI system with an O2 sensor. Unless you change the jets, it will run WORSE. Has anyone tuned a Weber to run high percentage ethanol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenTBK Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 A carb has no way of adjusting the mixture, unlike a FI system with an O2 sensor. Unless you change the jets, it will run WORSE. Has anyone tuned a Weber to run high percentage ethanol? No, but I believe I'm going to end up being the first to try. Gotta replace them headgaskets first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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