Audiophobe Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I have a 2001 Subie Outback LL Bean 3.0/6 cyl with 4 speed auto. I sometimes miss shifting (my other car is a standard) and wondered if there is any downside or "damage" in shifting and auto from 1st to 2nd and so on instead of the auto doing it's thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I cant see there being a problem, but lets wait for another reply, i have the same question about my car, its a auto with a manual switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 The auto transmission isn't meant to be shifted unless you have an absolute need to; ie. you're stuck and you need more torque. It's not meant to be your plaything because you didn't get a manual car. Put it in drive and let it go. Shift it to 3rd if you want to help it out while you're towing something. Otherwise, don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 It's not meant to be your plaything because you didn't get a manual car. HAHA! That's hilarious. No offense to the others, just the way he put that cracked me up. He sounded so stern about it, almost pissed off lol. I remember a long time ago(this is very stupid)I was driving my friend's 93? celica and it was an automatic. I was shifting it like that and chuckling as I went. I did this for a couple minutes driving through the city and then got out onto an open road and somehow accidently shoved it past 3rd, drive, neutral and (that's right) right into REVERSE! This resulted in a violent jerk and a horrible noise. I quickly slammed it back into drive and never did that again. Somehow the tranny never had any problems. And then he sold that POS to some poor kid for like $2500 bucks! I'd say it was worth $800. But now that I look back on it, I can laugh and that's all that matters! Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Yes its fine to manually shift an automtaic. Your not doing anything the valve body or ecu isnt doing normally. There is nothing your bypassing in the tranny mechanically, nothing your hurting, same clutches engage and disengage. And the ecu will save you from a collasal missed shift. I do it alot to get more response out of the car (when traffic pisses me off and i go into taxi mode). nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 How do u push it into reverse? It shouldnt let u unless u hit the brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceyWV Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I've done that before on my old camry, at low speeds, on gravel. It just killed the engine. Put it back in drive and it was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 How do u push it into reverse? It shouldnt let u unless u hit the brakes. there is a gate lock. You have to push the button to downshift, but you can just push the shifter up to upshift. You need to push the button to get in reverse from neutral. Man this is something i would never think of doing. SInce it is a fluid connection between the engine and tranny, it shouldnt cause damage even if you do do it. This is one of the reasons why autop mfgs tend not to put a synchro on reverse. It makes it harder to accidently shift in reverse (but it can be done). nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiophobe Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 Yes its fine to manually shift an automtaic. Your not doing anything the valve body or ecu isnt doing normally. There is nothing your bypassing in the tranny mechanically, nothing your hurting, same clutches engage and disengage. And the ecu will save you from a collasal missed shift. I do it alot to get more response out of the car (when traffic pisses me off and i go into taxi mode). nipper OK.......! Not that I plan to push it like my other (manual) car but it's good to know. Does anyone else agree(or diagree)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 HAHA! That's hilarious. No offense to the others, just the way he put that cracked me up. He sounded so stern about it, almost pissed off lol. I'm dead serious. Auto trannies are meant to be put in drive and then left alone. There's a reason drive comes first on the selector. Read any manual and it says the same thing: Don't use 1-2-3 unless you need to. Want != need. Besides, there is no performance advantage to putting the car in 1-2-3; it just makes it bind up like a normal manual car. I'm sure that that kind of binding isn't good for the internal tranny components. But, hey, you wanna be slapping in a $500 tranny with $500 in labor because you wanted to shift, be my guest. But, my "Only D" tranny has gone 150k + miles and I attribute that to not having some wannabe ricer shifting it through it's gears just because they wanted to be "cool." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I'm dead serious. Auto trannies are meant to be put in drive and then left alone. There's a reason drive comes first on the selector. Read any manual and it says the same thing: Don't use 1-2-3 unless you need to. Want != need. Besides, there is no performance advantage to putting the car in 1-2-3; it just makes it bind up like a normal manual car. I'm sure that that kind of binding isn't good for the internal tranny components. But, hey, you wanna be slapping in a $500 tranny with $500 in labor because you wanted to shift, be my guest. But, my "Only D" tranny has gone 150k + miles and I attribute that to not having some wannabe ricer shifting it through it's gears just because they wanted to be "cool." I've been doing this for many years and never had a problem. I have yet to find anyone anywhere that states differntly, including the Transmission Rebuilders of america (the dont want warrenty work coming back because people shift this way) , Transmission engineers, Automotive engineers (of which i am one). There is a performance increase as you are not waiting for the ecu to make the shift. the transmission linkage is directly connected to the tranny, and overrides the ECU. There is no binding, except in the AWD unit if you have torque bind. I have gone 300,000 miles on automatic trannies by both using D and manually shifting. The biggest killer of automatic trannies is heat (ie using D when you sould be shifting manually like in steep rolling hills), towing a trailer, or not changing fluid on schedual. D was invinted intially for women (back in the 1940's). There have been many variants of trannies over the year, from auto sticks, to manually operated shifts in automatic. Paddle ************ers and the new sports shifters are the same trannies as the regular automatics. There are loads of kits to convert trannies to manaul valve nodies, and there has been no proof in studies and/or testing, labratory or real world, that this encourages transmission or engine failure. I really think we are loosing our driving skills. Power steering is great, but very few no how to drive when it fails. Same with power breaks. Now with ABS and traction control no one knows how to drive in snow, they think the computer can do it all. When the computer fails or misjudges, most dont know what to do. Technology is wonderful, but not perfect The owners manual is not always right. Let me ask you this, do you always set the parking brake when putting the car in park? Thats in the owners manual. No place in the manual for my 1997 outback (nor my 1998) does it say to Don't use 1-2-3 unless you need to. It says D is for normal driving, nor does it say to not to drive manually.There is a list of "do nots" in the owners manual, and manually shifting is not one of them. SO go ahead and have fun nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 You know damn well I'm downshifting my auto tranny in a curvey road.. I want my rpms up for better control. If I'm lazy around town I'm leaving it in 3 so the computer will still shift it.. but not shift to 4 and bog down around 1200 rpms doing 40mph. If you are responsible with your gears, there is absolutely no problem shifting an auto tranny. You know, no downshifting at 4000+ rpms (resulting in ~6000 rpms in the lower gear)... Even though it is protected by the computer to not let you go above redline it can still be harsh to your engine and tranny, just like a manual. The computer tries to "learn" your driving habits and auto shift patterns. Shifting the auto tranny basically ignores the computer but causes no problems to mechanical components, unless abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 My opinion goes totally with nipper on this one. Manually shifting just moves a selector valve in the tranny, and the rest of the tranny functions pretty much as if the ECU was doing the shifting. ("Pretty much" meaning that certain hydraulic circuits are activated/inactivated, so fluid routing may be different, and it MAY be possible to overspeed... not sure on the 4EAT yet as to how much it can override.) One could argue that more frequent shifting might cause more wear, but the automatic "hunting" for the right gear can do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Is there any difference performance-wise from moving gear selector vs stepping on gas when you want to go a gear lower to speed-up? During my short experience with 4eat I did not feel any, except that stepping on gas is simpler. So I do not see why would you want to shift down to accelerate over flooring gas. I only see why one would downshift for slowing down on slippery roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Is there any difference performance-wise from moving gear selector vs stepping on gas when you want to go a gear lower to speed-up? During my short experience with 4eat I did not feel any, except that stepping on gas is simpler. So I do not see why would you want to shift down to accelerate over flooring gas. I only see why one would downshift for slowing down on slippery roads. Well when u shift down it helps the engine speed up then it will shift and it will like..... throw the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 What about the lifespan of the physical linkage between the shift lever and the transmission? Any idea if it is designed to tolerate constant "manual" shifting? I would think there would be a big difference between a car that is manually shifted all the time versus one that was operated normally most of the time, and shifted manually on occasion. It seems likely that the shifter was designed to be operated two to four times per driving cycle on average (P to R to D, D to P, etc.) And that is how most people use it. Just another idea to ponder... Matt d Also, I do always set the parking brake when I park, for two reasons. First, my usual car is a MT, so I am accustomed to doing it, but also I have found that the cable is less likely to bind up if it is used regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2X2KOB Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Manually shifting an automatic? I'm sure there are "activities" that are more pointless and boring than this, but I'm at a loss to think of what they might be. Well, maybe watching cricket on TV. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegacy96 Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Yeah dont do that. If youre talking about going from N to 1st and so forth this WILL create a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceyWV Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Oh, also. I dont act like I'm driving a manual, but my entire city is all on a hill side and most of the speed limits are 25~35 miles an hour. If I keep it in D it drops to 4th not soon after 25 miles an hour, and as soon as I start to ascend a hill, it will slowly lurch until it drops back to 3rd again,(These are West Virginia hills, no way I'm going up it in 4th at 30 miles an hour) I actually would think in these situations keeping it in 3rd would be better, because its shifting a lot less. There is also no noticeable gas mileage difference doing this. My tranny's got 75K and its fine. My 0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I don't think anyone would argue with manually downshifting when appropriate, i.e. long upslopes and downslopes, or trailer towing, etc... I do it when necessary. Another time would be when planning to pass a car. Downshifting before you pass can save you a second or two. In some cases, it can be hard to get the tranny to downshift quickly or at all, even with full throttle. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Hmmph, there's plenty of hills where I live and I have no desire ever to shift my car out of drive just to get some power up a hill. Maybe I have a transmission that actually works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 'Why not step into it and let the tranny do the job?". On my '05 the darn thing won't get off the low gear when I let up on the pedal because Subaru has built a mind into the tranny that makes it think it's decending a hill -when it's actually de-celerating- and must remain in a lower gear. I whomp it and let COMPLETELY off the gas pedal, it freezes for a good two-three seconds @ 5,000+RPM before it calms back to reality. This makes it impossible to play a tune on the auto tranny. I must say, though, I had a grand time stepping INTO the throttle while throwing the car into tight, downhill mountain corners. It would shift down and hold that lower gear for me while I slammed the corner without braking. Again, though, I can do the shifting math myself. I don't need a trarnny that thinks it knows best. The only real option is to manually shift the auto. Maddening, but true. Anyone know if I can overide this? It's unreal. I don't need the tranny to do the, flawed, thinking for me, especially not when it shifts into fourth gear at 30MPH. Bye the way, the owner's manual clearly states that the parking brake should be set BEFORE placing the tranny in Park. Anyone ever do that? Just sayin'. Juan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I always place my parking brake before releasing my normal brake when putting an auto tranny in park. It keeps the cars from rolling that little bit and putting tension on the park gear. I would rather have my brakes holding my car in place than the park gear. On steep hills I have had friends that their car was stuck in park because they did not set the brake. I'm sorry for those of you who can't see the beauty of being able to control where your RPMS are at going certain speeds. Unless you can show us documented proof that it causes undo stress and damage to your transmission.. I say "It's Okay!" for teh win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I always place my parking brake before releasing my normal brake when putting an auto tranny in park. It keeps the cars from rolling that little bit and putting tension on the park gear. I would rather have my brakes holding my car in place than the park gear. On steep hills I have had friends that their car was stuck in park because they did not set the brake. If I was in Arizona I'd also do that too. I had my parking brakes freeze on me once, so I couldn't move So now I set parking brake depending on weather forecast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX2FFU Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I always drive around in R, is that bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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