outbackusjunkus Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I have a decent 97 Outback with 170,000 miles, mt, and a very blown ej25. As most of you know, a used motor goes for about the same as a used Outback (if you can find one). I was about to junk this until I saw a previous thread in which someone else used a 95 2.2 with little mods. Anyone else out there done something similar? Is this the best year to use? Anyone use a newer engine? Besides the ps and ac bracket trouble will I have to use my current intake or exhauset manifolds? Sensors? Computer? Please...help, this car needs CPR...Paddles...Clear...beeeeeeeeeeeeep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I have a decent 97 Outback with 170,000 miles, mt, and a very blown ej25. As most of you know, a used motor goes for about the same as a used Outback (if you can find one). I was about to junk this until I saw a previous thread in which someone else used a 95 2.2 with little mods. Anyone else out there done something similar? Is this the best year to use? Anyone use a newer engine? Besides the ps and ac bracket trouble will I have to use my current intake or exhauset manifolds? Sensors? Computer? Please...help, this car needs CPR...Paddles...Clear...beeeeeeeeeeeeep... I did this swap on a '98 OBW 5mt. You can do a search on this forum (try a number of searches, like EJ 25 EJ 22 , etc.) and benefit from the experience others have had. To recap: You CANNOT use your current intake manifold (it won't line up.) You need to get a complete '95 2.2 from an automatic donor vehicle...most 5mt '95s did not have an EGR valve. The ej25 motor's flywheel & clutch assy will fit on to the ej22. The complete '95 intake, injectors, sensors and engine wiring harness will plug straight into your 2.5 wiring harness (there are three connectors right at the engine/trans junction.) You'll need to use the coil pack & plug wires from the 2.2. Your stock computer will (yes, really!) adjust to the ej22 motor; the fuel maps are close enough to the 2.5, and the oxygen sensor will allow the computer to 'fine tune' the fuel maps to your 2.2 motor. You'll have to wongleflute around with the breather hoses a bit as nothing will line up. I don't think you'll notice much, if any, power deficit with the 2.2. The 2.5 punches a bit stronger at highway speeds and high revs (with the DOHC heads) but off-the line power seems the same to me. It's a big project, but if you have the chops to R&R a 2.5, you can probably do the swap. Best regards, Nathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Works great, I've done several of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 Awsome! I am starting my search for a 95 at 2.2. Thanks for taking the time...and your detailed help, its nice saving countless hours when using someone else's experience. I will check back on this thread a few more times before getting the knife out, if there is anything else that would help PLEASE let me know...thanks again, great forum...(I can't get the smilies to work for me, so picture the dancing bananna thing here) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Awsome! I am starting my search for a 95 at 2.2. a 2.2 up to 1998 will work as well. the only thing you'll need is the exhaust manifold as well. the 95 just doesn't require the exhaust manifold. but that one item isn't worth reducing your possibilities. in 1999 the 2.2 changed a good bit, don't know if it would work for sure or not, i'd bet it would but i have nothing to confirm that. to recap - you'll need either a 1995 engine. or a 1996-1998 with exhaust manifold. with either of those two choices the swap is the same regarding everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 a 2.2 up to 1998 will work as well. the only thing you'll need is the exhaust manifold as well. THANKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 a 2.2 up to 1998 will work as well. the only thing you'll need is the exhaust manifold as well. THANKS! Just remember, FWIW, that starting with the '97 MY the wonderful 2.2 became an interference design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 https://www.tigerjapanese.com/product_info.php?cPath=47&products_id=394 Cost me $300 to ship from them to my door, car is running great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 Bought a 2.2 from 95 legacy w/at today, wreck w/less than 80,000 rounds. Looks like the weekend is all booked up, I'll try to take some pics and post them next week...nurse..chainsaw please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Bought a 2.2 from 95 legacy w/at today, wreck w/less than 80,000 rounds. Looks like the weekend is all booked up, I'll try to take some pics and post them next week...nurse..chainsaw please... Is this a non-EGR engine? If it is I think you will have problems with the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 Is this a non-EGR engine? If it is I think you will have problems with the computer. I'm going with Nathen's reply earlier that 95 AT cars have EGR, which agree's with other's posts in I found while searching around the forum. I'll let you know how it works out. Was that a JDM motor you bought? And was that 300 including shipping...or to ship? JDM engines scare me a little here because my 2.5 intake won't exchange...didn't want to get have to go hunting for odd's and end's. Good to hear you're up and running...how's the mileage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 You will need to swap the flywheel, AC compressor w/ hoses and power steering hoses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=64699 have you two met ? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I'm going with Nathen's reply earlier that 95 AT cars have EGR, which agree's with other's posts in I found while searching around the forum. I'll let you know how it works out. Was that a JDM motor you bought? And was that 300 including shipping...or to ship? JDM engines scare me a little here because my 2.5 intake won't exchange...didn't want to get have to go hunting for odd's and end's. Good to hear you're up and running...how's the mileage? $600 for the engine, $300 for the shipping. Yes it was a JDM engine, I replaced the head gaskets, timing belt and some other small stuff before I installed it. I swapped my intake onto the JDM engine with no problems, I did have to drill/tap the head for the EGR tube though. This just took some patience. I am on my first tank of gas since the install so not sure on the mileage yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I'm going with Nathen's reply earlier that 95 AT cars have EGR, which agree's with other's posts in I found while searching around the forum. Well, my research was conducted in the following manner: I looked up every ad for a 95 Legacy on e-bay, craigslist, autotrader, etc which included an underhood photo. All the 5mt cars did not have an EGR valve (in a normal underhood shot, you can't see the actual EGR valve, but you can see the EGR backpressure valve clipped to the back of the intake manifold.) All 4EAT (AT) cars did have an EGR valve. I looked at quite a few ads. My dad's '95 Legacy 5mt does not have an EGR valve, and the donor vehicle I got my motor from was a 4EAT '95 -w- EGR. There may be some exceptions for Cali emissions, early production dates, etc which I am unaware of, but so far, all the data seems to be following the rule. I have heard that the drill 'n' tap the head to add EGR method is dicey with risk of hitting a coolant passage, but I don't know firsthand that that's a fact. You do not HAVE to swap PS hoses. The stock hoses will work just fine, only the support brackets sit a couple of inches away from where they're supposed to attach. You could easily fabricate some supports, or just let 'em flap in the breeze like I did. There is also no need to discharge the AC, but if you leave the lines on, you have to flop the compressor on its side and really twist up the hose. Mine survived, but I can't reccommend this procedure 100% without reservations. Let us know how it turns out! Nathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Drilling and tapping the head wasn't that hard, just make sure the drill is straight(helps to have two people viewing two planes of the drill or a drill press) and know how far you have to drill for the threads. Drilling depth for the threads is important since the EGR pipe must seat inside the hole at the bottom, then drill a thinner hole the rest of the way. It really helps to have a head that has an EGR hole already for reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 is the the flywheel swap is due to the a/t - m/t difference or the 2.2 - 2.5 difference? fi the donor trans matched the outback trans, then the flywheel would be ok.? i'm a little confused. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted September 19, 2006 Author Share Posted September 19, 2006 is the the flywheel swap is due to the a/t - m/t difference or the 2.2 - 2.5 difference? fi the donor trans matched the outback trans, then the flywheel would be ok.? i'm a little confused. john From what I see on similar threads, the 2.2 flywheel is 1/2" smaller. I think thats OK if you use a 2.2 starter...someone who knows more would have to help here...bueller...bueller...This really is a popular topic lately, with all these 2.5's going tits up...maybe there should be a sticky...I'll try to take alot of pics this weekend to donate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 can't be the starter, i swapped a 96 2.2l a/t starter into a 97 2.5l a/t obw. i can see where a manual and auto might be different, but i don't knoww for sure. From what I see on similar threads, the 2.2 flywheel is 1/2" smaller. I think thats OK if you use a 2.2 starter...someone who knows more would have to help here...bueller...bueller...This really is a popular topic lately, with all these 2.5's going tits up...maybe there should be a sticky...I'll try to take alot of pics this weekend to donate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 From what I see on similar threads, the 2.2 flywheel is 1/2" smaller. I think thats OK if you use a 2.2 starter...someone who knows more would have to help here...bueller...bueller...This really is a popular topic lately, with all these 2.5's going tits up...maybe there should be a sticky...I'll try to take alot of pics this weekend to donate. hey 2.5L rule nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 hey 2.5L rule nipper Hey, nipper! Don't give away the store, man!! The longer all these guys believe the rumor and gossip about 2.5's the cheaper they'll be when I get around to replacing mine -- but that won't be for quite some time. 220K miles, still going strong. Sure I did a HG replacement way back in this engine's storied past, but hey, Subie ownership ain't for wimps! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 the rumor and gossip about 2.5's the cheaper they'll rumor and gossip? that's certainly not truthful. please type in "headgasket" into the search bar and see what comes up in the new gen forum. notice the lack of 2.2's (eventhough they've been around much longer). the 2.5 is a great motor, but i can fully understand an engine swap too for those that can't do headgasket work like i can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 rumor and gossip? that's certainly not truthful. please type in "headgasket" into the search bar and see what comes up in the new gen forum. notice the lack of 2.2's (eventhough they've been around much longer). the 2.5 is a great motor, but i can fully understand an engine swap too for those that can't do headgasket work like i can. i disagree, replace it once and be done with it, Headgaskets while annoying is not a death kneel for this engine. When a honda blows a HG do you replace the engine, no, you fix the HG. It's much ado about nothing. Now if someone wants to give me thier 2.5L with a blown HG since they think its junk, ill take it gladly. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Oh, I know. I was speaking a little tongue in cheek. However, while it is true that the 2.5 has had more than its share of HG issues, statistically it still isn't as bad as many other mfr's engines for general problems/issues. And anyone who would balk at HG replacement might, IMHO, also have a bit of a tough time with an engine swap. Personally, I'd rather pull the heads a few times than swap out a whole engine once. I've done both at one time or another, (although not on the Outback -- yet) and doing the heads was a quicker job. (in reply to grossgary, not nipper!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 you beat me to it again, nipper! But, anyone else has a 2.5 that they want to get rid of.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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