4x4_Welder Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 What kind of cam options are available for EA81s? Or are Delta regrinds the only option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Delta does a quality job, and their grinds are the best option as they are tested, and known to work well with the USDM EA81's. Using other stuff is possible - I've heard good things about the RAM performance stuff, but the cost will probably be similar if not more, and they are usually acustomed to the aircraft engines that are meant to run at high RPM (6,000+). For low end torque, the Delta 252 RV Torque grind is most appropriate. They have other grinds for high RPM, but I wasn't interested in those so you would have to call for details. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Ive also heard of (dont quote me on this) Spraymetal! You send in your cams and they'll spray on a metal like crome of molybdnam or whatever and they somehow get an equal spray on the cams... dont ask me how? I really dont trust it but then again, i dont know much about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted September 19, 2006 Author Share Posted September 19, 2006 Yeah, I was figuring I'd have to go with Delta. It's not bad, they are close to me, and I have a Delta regrind in my truck, with good results. A quick search around Summit showed nada for any Subaru cams. I have built up parts before with a stellite torch, but if you just spray a cam all the way around, there is effectively no increase in lift, but a very slight increase in duration. I have also played with custom ground cams in Ford 300-6 engines, one I had a shop take almost 1/10" off the base circle to increase the lift. It worked, but wore out quickly because they didn't harden it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Ive also heard of (dont quote me on this) Spraymetal! You send in your cams and they'll spray on a metal like crome of molybdnam or whatever and they somehow get an equal spray on the cams... dont ask me how? I really dont trust it but then again, i dont know much about it! That's what delta does - they use a spray welder to build up the lobes, and then grind them down to the selected pattern. But Delta knows what they are doing, and their multiple step process is designed for camshaft regrinding. They harden it, balance it, and there are several other steps involved that make their process superior than that of a "normal" machine shop. Pretty much all they do is cams, rockers, valves, etc. Very good work IMO. Oh - and you don't even have to take off the timing gear off. They do that for us at no charge which is nice on the EA81 as getting that pressed-on gear on and off is a pain. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 They were used for 4 of my Subaru motors. Two 1.8 OHV motors, an ER27 and an EJ25. All had excellent results. Tell them(Scott and John) that Ken sent you. You'll pay the same price(which is low for custom cams) but they'll make sure you get what you need. They have sponsored my rallyx'ers and have been part of the West Coast Subaru Show for 3yrs now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 That's what delta does - they use a spray welder to build up the lobes, and then grind them down to the selected pattern... Devil's Advocate-type question: I have heard on EA82s that Delta cams (specifically their 272 duration cams) required HLA shimming due to the regrind reducing base circle. (Context implied that the lobes were not built-up, but rather just reground.) Any info on this? *IF* they do this on EA82s, do they do this on EA81s? (I have NO first hand knowledge on this, just wanting accurate info. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Devil's Advocate-type question: I have heard on EA82s that Delta cams (specifically their 272 duration cams) required HLA shimming due to the regrind reducing base circle. (Context implied that the lobes were not built-up, but rather just reground.) Any info on this? *IF* they do this on EA82s, do they do this on EA81s? (I have NO first hand knowledge on this, just wanting accurate info. ) I've heard that as well from other threads. The EA81 does not require this as the rocker arms are fully adjustable (a "leftover" trait of the EA81's solid lifter heritage). The Delta web site shows pictures of the welding proccess so I'm sure that's part of the procedure. Why the shimming is needed I don't know for sure. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted September 19, 2006 Author Share Posted September 19, 2006 I think on the EA-82, they have to do that due to space limitations in the cam case area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I think on the EA-82, they have to do that due to space limitations in the cam case area. As in, "the lobes have to be able to pass through the cam bearing bosses in the camcase"? Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 As in, "the lobes have to be able to pass through the cam bearing bosses in the camcase"? Makes sense. It does actually - the EJ engines have bolts holding the cam bearings in don't they? And not a problem on the EA81 as the cam bearings are split with the case. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 They do that for us at no charge which is nice on the EA81 as getting that pressed-on gear on and off is a pain. GD GD- do you own an arbor press??? they are SOOOOO useful its absolutely not funny... i never had even seen one to conscious recollection until i got a job a year ago at a place rebuilding auto tools (air guns to welders to hydraulics and back) and i cannot WAIT to get one installed up at the shop... they make press-ons and -offs SO much easier, and more precise, that once you have had one you cant work without one again. im ignorant of anything on the ea81, so it might not be of any use in this situation.. but i cant imagine how.. if you dont know what an arbor press is, its basically a press with a rack of teeth and a pinion gear sorta like a steering setup.. but there is a press attached to the rack, so you just use the leverage from the pinion gear arm to press races, pulleys, bushings etc into and out of holes. look it up at a tool website and as soon as you see a photo you'll understand perfectly.. but you cant really use a hydraulic press as easily as an arbor press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted September 19, 2006 Author Share Posted September 19, 2006 Oh yeah, I've used plenty of arbor presses, usually to broach splines though. I really prefer a hydraulic press for stuff like this though, much more versatile. I still need to get one, though, it's in the shop budget, but I just need to work on the income side of the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 GD- do you own an arbor press??? they are SOOOOO useful its absolutely not funny... I'm sure they are, but I really don't have a lot of use for one. I've got alternate ways of taking care of most of that sort of thing. While it would be useful, the cost would probably outweigh my personal benefits. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 arr, indeed, 'twere but a thought. even a mangy pirate wants to but his two bits in once in a while, yanno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 I almost forgot- National Talk Like a Pirate Day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoostedBalls Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Oh Crap! I got the Detla stage 3 cam grind on my ea-82t. I said that I want to go maximum without modifying the valvetrain. I did notice that when I installed the cams that the rockers were WAY loose. I posted this on here but I didn't get much feedback. And I never heard of using shims. This sucks, I just dropped the engine in the car last night, I don't want to have to tear it apart again. I need more info on these shims! Please help! -Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Oh Crap! I got the Detla stage 3 cam grind on my ea-82t. I said that I want to go maximum without modifying the valvetrain. I did notice that when I installed the cams that the rockers were WAY loose. I posted this on here but I didn't get much feedback. And I never heard of using shims. This sucks, I just dropped the engine in the car last night, I don't want to have to tear it apart again. I need more info on these shims! Please help! -Chuck You have to get the shims from delta. Theys *should* have informed you of this. It won't work without the shims. Your rockers could fall off or get jamed up due to the looseness. Basically the shims just go under the lifters in the head. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoostedBalls Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 That really blows, I specifically told them that I want the highest lift WITHOUT modifying the other parts in the valvetrain. I'll give them a call and see what's up; maybe they can grind my extra set of cams with a grind that doesn't require any silly business. Thanks for the info! You have to get the shims from delta. Theys *should* have informed you of this. It won't work without the shims. Your rockers could fall off or get jamed up due to the looseness. Basically the shims just go under the lifters in the head. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Well - pretty sure you'll need shims with *any* grind. As previously mentioned the cam won't go into the case if it's enlarged, so they just regrind them without adding metal. Thus all grinds need shims on the EA82. At least that's how it sounds. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoostedBalls Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I just got off the phone with Delta Cams. They are gunna send me some stainless washers to drop in there. He said that people also use dimes. You gotta be kidding me I said. "no, we do it in race engines all the time" he said. I'm not about to stick no stinking coins with rough edges in my engine. I can imagine what the lifter bores look like after 10k miles with coins chewing away at them. I'm torqued. Looks like I get to tear back into it! Thanks Delta for not telling about this at the time of purchase so I would only have to do this once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 The spacers under the lifters aren't going to be moving at all (so can't do a thing to your lifter bore), so yeah, change actually seems like a good choice. It's very precisely machined unlike most cheap chinese washers. Damn good idea IMO. Use the dimes. The guys at Delta know their stuff. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 well, the bright side is its all going to be clean, easy work because youre backing up a few steps, not disassembling a motor right off the street. and not to condescend, but they probably assumed that you understood you would need to shim a regrind.. sure, they should have also shipped you shims, but it need not have been specifically mentioned or spoken about during the transaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 He's right - people ordering custom ground cams and intending to install them themselves are pretty much responsible for asking questions. They aren't going to offer up this information - besides I doubt they are intimately familiar with soob engines, and just assume you know to ask for them. These guys grind all sorts of stuff every day, and they know "general" guidelines on how to fit cams. Thus the sugestion to use dimes. That's a cool idea anyway. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 just dont use nickels.. you dont want cheap metal in your engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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