92 Loyale question

[Neo-Angel]

Hi guys, I'm new here so please dont flame me for being stupid. I'm thinking about buying a 92 loyale AWD 5 Speed, And I was wondering if they make any performance parts for it. Like a aftermarket intake, Turbo, And anything else that would give it more power. Or if the engine could be swapped for another one that has those options for it that will still let me use the AWD feature. any links would also be helpfull. Thanks in avance

[daeron]

try using the search feature, as i dont have many links that are all that helpful.

 

I'll give you the skinny on most of it though.

 

Engine: your loyale you are looking at has a single point fuel injection system. it has one injector into a throttle body, its basically a glorified electrical carburetor. Subaru made this engine with a MPFI turbo, but you would need the complete engine/ecu/turbo/crossmember i think/maybe other stuff to do the swap; no turbocharging your motor. turbo motors have much lower compression, and the weak point on these engines is the headgaskets.. you start playing with high comp turbo, or even high boost low comp turbo motors, you WILL blow a headgasket. eventually, at least. you want more than 10.00 miles, right? the simple answer is to swap to a newer, EJ22 engine from a legacy. the loyale uses the EA82 engine. (also, loyale =GL/DL after like 1984, for all intents and purposes. we use EA82 to name the modeal rather than loyale/gl/gl10/dl whatever blah blah because the engine is essentially the definition of the model, the names just indicate age and trim level) To swap to the EJ, youd need basically everything you would need to swap to an EA82 Turbo.. but you are getting a more reliable engine, with more power and displacement to start off with. and you can turbo THAT. i dont know alot about those motors, so this is where i stop this train.

 

 

suspension:If you dont mod it to use a later axle setup, you have no aftermarket suspension options. maybe urethane bushings, but thats it. no springs, no shocks/strut cartridges, just stockers..... the five lug swap commonly done allows you suspension options, wheel options, and gives you an opportunity to do brake options as well...

 

brakes/wheels: wheels, you CAN find subaru factory alloys or mags, and you can find wheels off a peaugeot that fit. otherwise, see above regarding the five lug swap. these studs are just too far apart. the offroaders take six lug japtruck rims and use two original holes, and drill two more holes... but that only works on rims from a nissan/toyota pickup, and leaves four empty holes in the rim. VW rims looks like they might fit, but the soob is just a HAIR (5mm) wider. brakes, you DO have a few options on without making any other MAJOR conversions.. but im not all that familiar with what you can do, and im clueless as to where youd get the parts from. if you see a soob in the junkyard that has brakes youd like to put on your car, and that soob looks like yours, itll probly bolt right in. (actually, that holds true for pretty much anything on the car.. if the subaru looks about the same, itll probably fit. rule of thumb, often broken, but more often right)

 

also, if youre going to make this a performance car, you should make sure you have properly functioning water temp, and oil pressure gauges. the factory ones (i dont know if they were even there as late as 92) are NOT the greatest.

 

there is the soob-in-a-nutshell. as i said, use the search function to read discussions that have gone on in the past. thats the best way to get the general knowledge youre looking for. all things considered, once you make sure youve got good factory suspension again, and some good wide tires underneath of her, this car handles fairly well. the brakes are adequate, and i dont even have rear discs.. once you go through a good thorough 100K tuneup, these motors actually surprise you. 84 hp max (or 90, depending on which chart you read) but they get 114 ft-lb of torque, so they actually move around quite nicely.

 

get the subaru!! you will love it. everyone else does, if they bother to pay attention to what it needs.

[Neo-Angel]

Wow, thanks for the info, that helped me alot. Its a relief to see sombody that does not flame somebody for being a little stupid about a car. The car is $750 and has 180,xxx on it, Do you think its worth it? And also how much do you think it would cost to do the swap?

[SuBrat84]

And also how much do you think it would cost to do the swap?

 

Depends what motor.. and how much you can find it for.

If you get a rebuilt motor from CCR and plan on installing it yourself.. like $3,000... If you can find a good junkyard motor/etc and DIY under $1000.

[daeron]

cost, beats me. im not thinking about doing it, thats just the info ive picked up thru osmosis here :- )

 

as for the car, check it over rather tohoroughly for rust. ask about water pumps and such. check the oil on the dipstick and make sure its good and black. if it looks like a milkshake thats not good, its water in the oil. check the water in the radiator, for the same thing. it should be clean water or antifreeze, if its VERY cloudy and brownish, then theres possibly a headgasket issue. ask about driving habits and maybe try and see if you can get him to admit its been overheated. get it?? dont ASK outright, but hint and see if you cven get him to admit it or not.. headgaskets on these motors like to go. if you got that, you can wrench them down in price a little bit the headgaskets are VERY easy to do, not as intimidating as you might think on say, a late model chevy... they just have to be done right. check for rust through and through, if you dont find any and the car is in good mechanical shape as determined by a test drive, then id say 750 isnt unreasonable.. not a price to be bragging around about, alot of use are in the 100 dollar range.. mine was free..... but you wouldnt be getting bent over backwards either.

 

these cars are SUPER reliable as long as you keep the cooling system happy. its a non interference engine, which means if you blow a timing belt it doesnt destroy the valves.. and its super easy to work on. if you are a marginal shadetree mechanic, this car will teach you EVERYTHING you dont know. if youre clueless, this car will teach you how to fix cars. if youre already a seasoned shadetree, prepare to learn enough to make you feel like you engineered it. they are THAT simple, and that well designed.

 

what else would you expect from the ONE group of JAPANESE engineers that decided, "hey, lets just rip volkswagen off!! THEY seem to have a good thing going!"

 

Nissan did it with mercedes, toyota and mazda rode thru on their coattails.. but subaru did it best, and didnt get noticed until the 90s.

 

oh, and you lucked out. im MR long winded, so i figured i would save other people some time and just give you the whole shebang. if you buy the car, this site is your new best friend.

[GeneralDisorder]

92 Loyale will not be AWD, it will be part time 4WD.

 

Rust is the major factor where you live - if it's in good shape on that account, $750 isn't unreasonable. It's a manual yes? I would pass up an automatic - the 3AT's aren't the greatest for longevity over 200k - especially with unknown history.

 

GD

[Neo-Angel]

From what I seen in the pics, There is a dent in the trunk above the logo with a little rust on it and the interior is in kinda rough shape, The door panels are scratched like there was a dog in it, And it also has some stains on the seats. The price was originally $850, But they just dropped it to $750. I found a ej20tt and a ej22 for $950 online, But thats just the engine only. If I got one of those engines would I still be able to use AWD? Sorry for being dumb, I've never had a AWD car before, Right now all I have is a 89 Nissan 240SX coupe.

[GeneralDisorder]

EJ22 would be the best bet - Turbo's are a headache and a half.

 

The engine will not "just bolt in". It does not match the transmission, and requires an adaptor plate, as well as drilling the flywheel from the old engine to match the EJ crank bolt pattern. Custom plumbing for the radiator, and some slight modification to the engine cross-member. Custom exhaust is needed as well. Then there's the wireing.... and there's no shortage of that. You need the entire engine control harness and computer from a donor car, and no small amount of soldering, fitting, and routing of wires. Really it's quite a mess, but it can and has been done. It's no simple weekend job - don't think it is.

 

Again - transmission will NOT be AWD. It will be 4WD, and can only be used on "slick" surfaces. Just like a truck. If you put it in 4WD on dry pavement, the wheels will bind as there is no center differential.

 

Swapping in an AWD transmission is possible, but if you are going to that trouble, unless you are a real enthusiast, then get a Legacy.

 

GD

[Neo-Angel]

Thanks. There is also a 94 Impreza for $1800, are those AWD for that year?

here is the link for the Loyale, It says AWD so thats what I took it for http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=207049394&dealer_id=43566041&car_year=1992&mod_bookmark_id=null&num_records=100&search_type=both&make=any&distance=75&address=23860&advanced=&certified=&bkms=1156997147841&max_price=2000&min_price=1&first_record=201&end_year=2007&start_year=1981&pager.offset=200&lang=en&cardist=58

[GeneralDisorder]

Yep - push-button on-demand 4WD. Just like a truck. You can see the orange button on top of the shifter in the picture of the interior.

 

94 Imp could be either - you will have to ask or look under it. In 96 Subaru did away with all 2WD vehicles, but prior to that they made 2WD Imp's and Legacy's. If there is a rear diff under it, then it's AWD. They did not make part-time 4WD anymore after the Loyale.

 

GD

[Neo-Angel]

I want a good cheap AWD subaru, I'm on disability so I dont have that much money unless they are willing to work out payments. I've always liked subaru's, My dad said he used to have one before I was born, I'm 20 by the way, He said he cant remember what it was, All he knows is it was one of the best cars he ever had. He said it kept breaking an axel every couple of months thou.

[GeneralDisorder]

What is wrong with your Nissan?

 

Anyway, axles are not the issue that everyone makes them out to be. The problem is with "rebuilt" axles that really are not. Older subarus especially run axles at very high angles, and poorly or improperly "rebuilt" axles will fail very quickly. The GCK brand new axles can be special ordered through autozone, and all the older subaru's seem to get about 100,000 out of a new axle. I've been using them for years now, and haven't changed a single one since I started using them. If a quality product is installed properly, it will easily go 100k or more.

 

I would recommed a manual transmission, 2WD legacy. Great gas mileage, and the EJ22 is bulletproof as is the manual tranny. Anything older than that and you are looking at low HP, timing belt/head gasket problems, etc. While there are still gems out there, and when properly maintained or repaired the older ones are quite reliable, it's still a 20 year old car, and you are better off with the newest car you can afford if you are disabled. The EJ22 is argueably the best engine subaru has ever made, and the 5 speeds are great transmissions. Far and away an early 2WD legacy will be your best bet for low maintenance, cheap repair and operation.

 

GD

[Neo-Angel]

My 240SX has a bad engine, or so my dad says. He thinks its the main bearings, The engine has 226,XXX miles on it so I would not be surprised if it is. And plus the 240SX is RWD and not good in the winter, Cause of the Ice and Snow, Thats why I want a subaru, They are very dependable and AWD. I just wish I could find a cheap, dependable subaru, It really does not matter how many miles are on it, As long as it has been maintained over its lifetime. Looks don't matter that much as long as it does not have a huge dent or alot of rust somewhere. Anybody know of one cheap in Virginia? the only one I seen here was the one with the bad transmission. Thanks guys.

[daeron]

man, i have been wanting to snap that turbo GL10 in richmond with the bad trans up for a while now..... but its 900 miles away, which adds at LEAST 300 bucks to the tag, probably alot more...

 

i dont know, but i thought the pushbutton 4wd was perfectly fine on snowy/icy asphalt......???? as for installing a new trans, if its a direct replacement and not a swap from a totally different vehicle, then its a job of a totally different caliber. not ENTIRELY like changing a lightbulb, and since you said youre on disability i can see where it might be a bit much.. but its less work than ANY sort of engine swap from one type of vehicle to another.. FAR FAR FAR less work, there are people here who could swap the trans in their soob in a couple hours. i know i could do it in my Zcar (1975 280Z thank you very much, my fellow nissan fan) in about two hours, if i was well prepared and had air tools and a token assistant to hand me wrneches etc. at my disposal.

[GeneralDisorder]

Nothing wrong with the push-button trans except it sucks. It's only got high range, and a bunch of aparatus to make that silly button work. Give me a solid lever to pull any day. Worst idea subaru ever used on a transmission.

 

GD

[Neo-Angel]

I also want the AWD to give me better acceleration at take off, And I heard that a good AWD car with a good engine has better accel. than a FWD or a RWD. And you said yourself that the 4WD in the loyale is only for icy roads and that it could mess it up if its on dry pavment, Right or am I misunderstanding it? Oh and Daeron, got any pics of you're Z? I love my 240SX I originally wanted the hatchback but when I saw my coupe, I fell in love with it. I'm on 240SXForums.com as 240SX-DRIFTIN' You should join, If you're not already a member. On there it does not matter if you have a 240SX or not as long as you love the cars.

[Numbchux]

try using the search feature, as i dont have many links that are all that helpful.

 

I'll give you the skinny on most of it though.

 

Engine: your loyale you are looking at has a single point fuel injection system. it has one injector into a throttle body, its basically a glorified electrical carburetor. Subaru made this engine with a MPFI turbo, but you would need the complete engine/ecu/turbo/crossmember i think/maybe other stuff to do the swap; no turbocharging your motor. turbo motors have much lower compression, and the weak point on these engines is the headgaskets.. you start playing with high comp turbo, or even high boost low comp turbo motors, you WILL blow a headgasket. eventually, at least. you want more than 10.00 miles, right? the simple answer is to swap to a newer, EJ22 engine from a legacy. the loyale uses the EA82 engine. (also, loyale =GL/DL after like 1984, for all intents and purposes. we use EA82 to name the modeal rather than loyale/gl/gl10/dl whatever blah blah because the engine is essentially the definition of the model, the names just indicate age and trim level) To swap to the EJ, youd need basically everything you would need to swap to an EA82 Turbo.. but you are getting a more reliable engine, with more power and displacement to start off with. and you can turbo THAT. i dont know alot about those motors, so this is where i stop this train.

 

 

suspension:If you dont mod it to use a later axle setup, you have no aftermarket suspension options. maybe urethane bushings, but thats it. no springs, no shocks/strut cartridges, just stockers..... the five lug swap commonly done allows you suspension options, wheel options, and gives you an opportunity to do brake options as well...

 

brakes/wheels: wheels, you CAN find subaru factory alloys or mags, and you can find wheels off a peaugeot that fit. otherwise, see above regarding the five lug swap. these studs are just too far apart. the offroaders take six lug japtruck rims and use two original holes, and drill two more holes... but that only works on rims from a nissan/toyota pickup, and leaves four empty holes in the rim. VW rims looks like they might fit, but the soob is just a HAIR (5mm) wider. brakes, you DO have a few options on without making any other MAJOR conversions.. but im not all that familiar with what you can do, and im clueless as to where youd get the parts from. if you see a soob in the junkyard that has brakes youd like to put on your car, and that soob looks like yours, itll probly bolt right in. (actually, that holds true for pretty much anything on the car.. if the subaru looks about the same, itll probably fit. rule of thumb, often broken, but more often right)

 

also, if youre going to make this a performance car, you should make sure you have properly functioning water temp, and oil pressure gauges. the factory ones (i dont know if they were even there as late as 92) are NOT the greatest.

 

there is the soob-in-a-nutshell. as i said, use the search function to read discussions that have gone on in the past. thats the best way to get the general knowledge youre looking for. all things considered, once you make sure youve got good factory suspension again, and some good wide tires underneath of her, this car handles fairly well. the brakes are adequate, and i dont even have rear discs.. once you go through a good thorough 100K tuneup, these motors actually surprise you. 84 hp max (or 90, depending on which chart you read) but they get 114 ft-lb of torque, so they actually move around quite nicely.

 

get the subaru!! you will love it. everyone else does, if they bother to pay attention to what it needs.

 

 

this is a little late, but I just thought I'd correct a couple things here....

 

many people have turbo'd the SPFI EA82, with decent results. you can't push alot of boost through them, but you can push some. the high-comp block can take ~5psi of boost pretty well. the biggest problem with the SPFI is it's hard to get enough fuel in there to match the extra air. but a high-comp MPFI (one injector for each cylinder) engine runs pretty well with about 5psi max. and real quick spool

 

also, for suspension. there are lots of options. even if you stay 4-lug. KYB GR2 struts are available as a bolt on for these cars, and the RX springs are pretty stiff, and will fit on there just fine. Also, many generic 'ebay' type adjustable coilovers will fit. I'm running 400/450 lb/in coilovers in my loyale right now. it needs the stiffer shocks REALLY bad, but the springs work. also, the XT6 sway bar bolts right into the front, and if you get the rear trailing arms from a GL turbo with sway bars, you can use the XT6 rear aswell. I've never heard of any poly bushings available.

 

I see nothing wrong with the stock gauges. as long as the sendors work. besides, if the EA82 looses oil pressure, it'll tell you. the hydraulic lash adjusters will stop putting pressure on the rockers....and make a horrible ticking sound. you won't miss it unless you've got the radio really cranked.

 

wheels. stock subaru 4-lug wheels were only 13s (well, theoretically 14s existed, but I only know of one set here in the US). and ANY 6x5.5" wheel will have the right size bolt pattern to be modified to work on a subaru. chevy, nissan, toyota, isuzu, etc. and yes, old 4-lug peugeots have the same lug pattern. and have 14 and 15" in both alloy and steel varieties. the alloy ones will need the peugeot (pug for short) lug nuts, or ball seats.

 

only brakes upgrade for 4-lug is rear discs. 5-lug yeilds bigger rotors, but same calipers (unless you use legacy/impreza fronts.... = whole different can of worms). and once/if you start driving hard, the rear drums are not enough, discs make a world of difference!!

 

sorry to go pick apart your post daeron. no offense intended. but I just wanted to make sure all the correct information was out there.

 

 

personally. having driven a stock-EJ22 powered AWD legacy for a few months, and now a stock-EJ22 powered FT4WD loyale. I'd take the loyale any day of the week. it's noticably quicker! I think they're quite a bit lighter!

 

if you're a decent mechanic, and know you're way around a wiring diagram, a sweet EJ22-powered AWD (yes, you can use the legacy true AWD tranny) loyale could be built for similar cost to buying a legacy/impreza with the same setup. and will be quicker, and FAR more unique! I would HIGHLY recommend it!!!

 

but, if you're not up to huge extensive drivetrain swaps, and want something a little more performance oriented right out of the box. an AWD impreza would be the ticket!

[daeron]

Numbchux: Kosher, i try to keep anything like that posted with a disclaimer that im no sage myself. I know some things.. some of them, i am even certain of.

[eggroller]

I only want to interject that there appears to be Poly bushings available for the EA82 in the US(see my post on page 4)

[bgd73]

I only want to interject that there appears to be Poly bushings available for the EA82 in the US(see my post on page 4)

 

That is good stuff. I was hoping for engine mounts. My 2wd is a Lunatic. Got 90hp?!

 

There is some stuff you can do to the spfi... it needs patience and ingenuity. The rubber intake boot is absurd, on any engine.The EGR if voted good or bad, has proven to be an engine killer. There is alot of things to do to keep it good, which also keeps power decent. This forum has posts all the time. Sometimes repeating, if you forget (like I do)

[Numbchux]

I only want to interject that there appears to be Poly bushings available for the EA82 in the US(see my post on page 4)

 

WOW!! way cool! thanks!!!!!!!11!11!1

[eggroller]

That is good stuff. I was hoping for engine mounts. My 2wd is a Lunatic. Got 90hp?!

 

There is some stuff you can do to the spfi... it needs patience and ingenuity. The rubber intake boot is absurd, on any engine.The EGR if voted good or bad, has proven to be an engine killer. There is alot of things to do to keep it good, which also keeps power decent. This forum has posts all the time. Sometimes repeating, if you forget (like I do)

For engine mounts. I purchased a new set of motor and transmission mounts. Went to the local Schucks (Auto parts store) and bought a tube of 3M Window Weld. Wrapped them in plastic and pushed the polyurethane into the voids between the rubber mounts. I let them dry for a week and will install them soon.

[daeron]

For engine mounts. I purchased a new set of motor and transmission mounts. Went to the local Schucks (Auto parts store) and bought a tube of 3M Window Weld. Wrapped them in plastic and pushed the polyurethane into the voids between the rubber mounts. I let them dry for a week and will install them soon.

 

 

My little brother made some solid motor/trans mounts on his CRX out of his old destroyed ones, and something simliar to that. they work GREAT.....as long as you understand it means major vibrations will be transmitted to the car, but thats standard with solid or poly bushings....

[eggroller]

My little brother made some solid motor/trans mounts on his CRX out of his old destroyed ones, and something simliar to that. they work GREAT.....as long as you understand it means major vibrations will be transmitted to the car, but thats standard with solid or poly bushings....

The durometer of the polyurethane is suppose to be around 55-60 (shore A). It will be stiff but the rubber is still inside there. So the overall stiffness is supposed to be pretty liveable. We will see later when I get them installed.