Ridiculously high mileage on one engine, with no head gasket change

[Crawlerdan]

The Subaru shop where I got my trans fixed has two loaner cars. Each is a late 90's legacy wagon. The one I used had 232,000 miles on it, no head gasket work, and their other one had 320,000, with one head gasket change! :eek:

i have an 88 dl wagon with 357,xxx miles on the original head gaskets (family owned it prior) and i currently own a 92 2.2 litre wagon with 210,xxx on original gaskets

 

and not that this is relivant but i used to own a 84 toyota pickup with 389786 miles on original EVERTHING...including the original double row timing chain:headbang:

[hankosolder2]

You 2.5 phase I apologists make me cross. I believe that there are some phase I's with with high miles and no problems, but the fact remains that a week doesn't go by without someone posting a new HG thread here. The late '90s Legacys get the black dot of doom rating for engine reliability in Consumer Reports, which means that 20% or more have suffered engine problems. Since the Legacy was sold with a mix of ej22 and ej25s, and the 20% or more rating reflects an average of the almost trouble free ej22s and the, erm, eh not so trouble free ej25s- that means that in reality, the failure rate for ej25s is probably WELL over 20%.

Besides, it sounds like a diesel when cold, is a royal PITA to change timing belts on, has poor access to the sparkplugs and weighs more- all this for a marginal power increase. My ej25 is sitting on the workbench, and an ej22 is in the car. Who wants to drive a car which could leave you stranded at any time? Sure, you could proactively replace the head gaskets, but head gaskets just shouldn't be a routine component of preventive maintainence.

Subaru's failure to step up to the plate on warranty coverage on the Phase I 2.5 adds insult to injury. On the positive side, the EJ25 debacle enabled me to get a nice car for my wife at pennies on the dollar, and with a ej22 in it, it's sound as a pound now.

 

Nathan

 

Easy because there are a large percentage of people here with 2.5 with high mileage on them that have not blown HGs.

SO you always drive with something that is going to make a huge pile of waste no one wants after 20 years?

Just because some people have had HG issues (and yes 15% qualifies as some) doesnt mean they are bad engines.

Any engine will blow a HG if it is not maintaned right, allowed to have air bubbles in the coling system, or gets old enough.

Over 140,000 miles the odds of blowing one increases on all engines. THe aluminum block and head with a metal alloy gasket with differnt expansion rates determine this. In reality as subarus age, they are less likely to blow HG as opposed to hindas, toyotas or american engines (and at that point the american cars arent worth owning anyway).

 

If we apply the same theopry to the subaru TB and awd units, then that is crap to since they do wear out for a number of reason, and this board shouldnt exist for such a poorly made car.

ill take a dohc 2.5L anyday.

 

i'm going to bow out of this thread since its pointless, and go back to beating blu up on dirt roads of wyoming

 

nipper

[jon38iowa]

i have an 88 dl wagon with 357,xxx miles on the original head gaskets (family owned it prior) and i currently own a 92 2.2 litre wagon with 210,xxx on original gaskets

 

and not that this is relivant but i used to own a 84 toyota pickup with 389786 miles on original EVERTHING...including the original double row timing chain:headbang:

Early 8os Toyota drive trains are regarded by many as the best(would easily outlast their bodies), most reliable ever produced by anyone anywhere. Many well respected mechanics state this and further say Toyota has fallen off a bit, though still are extremely well made.

[cookie]

I have changed Toyota head gaskets as well on thier excellent fours. Lets, see I have also done a couple of Nissans, a couple Mazdas, Fords, and even a spate of Chevies in the 70s.

It is a shame that the 2.5 has smudged Subaru's excellent reputation a bit.

[Manarius]

Really, if anything, the pre 1997 EJ22's, the pre 1995? EJ20's and the EJ18's are the best Subaru engines. No HG issues and non-interference makes for a long lasting engine.

[idosubaru]

to talk about whether the EJ25 has head gasket issues and try to chalk it up to "age and mileage" seems less than fair to anyone who doesn't know much about cars - all anyone has to do is type "head gasket" in the search function and see all the 2.5 threads comes up. that removes our own bias and let's users make an informed decision. if it were strictly age and mileage related then EJ22's would be blowing away the EJ25 posts because they've been around for much longer. but they are rare.

 

doesnt mean they are bad engines.

i agree, they are good engines, it's two gaskets, i don't see a big deal in that mysel either. but depends on your definition of bad. a $1,500 repair bill won't hurt me, but i don't think everyone can say that. so it's good for others to know.

 

Any engine will blow a HG if it is not maintaned right, allowed to have air bubbles in the coling system, or gets old enough.

Over 140,000 miles the odds of blowing one increases on all engines.

but EJ25's blow headgaskets at 30,000 - 50,000 - 80,000....a trend that wasn't seen in the EA82, ER27, EG33, EJ18, EJ22....a pre 100,000 mile head failure in one of those engines if nearly unheard of.

 

we should each make a thread about our oppinion and just copy and paste the link every 4 days this comes up!!!!

[99obw]

One thing that rarely gets mentioned is climate. My informal non-scientific survey of upstate NY people suggests that most end up replacing the PHI HG's before 150k miles. Obviously there is no always, no never, but it's very common none-the-less. I think that cold starts, let's say just for example 5F or less, are a huge contributor. The day ours blew it was 5 F outside. Hmmm, anecdotal no doubt. Many of the people I have seen on here singing the praises of the PHI live in an area where colds starts at these temps rarely if ever happen. I have started our PHI down to -20F, and many many starts have taken place in the -5F to 5F range.

 

I think it's absolutely hilarious that anyone brags about a subaru reaching anything less the 400k, as I have seen small block chevies and 4.0 jeep motors fly past 300k without hesitation, and they are primitive detroit iron. Apples and oranges perhaps, but funny to me anyway.

 

Don't get me wrong, our Subaru has been a great car, but there are a lot of good cars out there now-a-days.

[cookie]

Ithaca sure can give ya the 20 below days. If you think of the tremendous forces involved in the contraction and expansion of alloy blocks and heads at those temps it's a wonder any work.

At least on the phase 2s more failures have happened in cold temps when the engines shrink. It is always common to see hoses and such shrink in the winter and leak too. On those engines the goop works well to plug them up.

With unsupported liners and the thin sealing surface of a 2.5 sealing was really a challenge for Subaru.

This is one more reason that Nipper has a lot of guts to run his cross country. He is going to get that engine up to temps that it has probably never seen before.

[99obw]

Ithaca sure can give ya the 20 below days. If you think of the tremendous forces involved in the contraction and expansion of alloy blocks and heads at those temps it's a wonder any work.

At least on the phase 2s more failures have happened in cold temps when the engines shrink. It is always common to see hoses and such shrink in the winter and leak too. On those engines the goop works well to plug them up.

With unsupported liners and the thin sealing surface of a 2.5 sealing was really a challenge for Subaru.

This is one more reason that Nipper has a lot of guts to run his cross country. He is going to get that engine up to temps that it has probably never seen before.

 

Nah, despite what the t-shirts might say, Ithaca is relatively warm. We have a big deep lake nearby that significantly moderates the temperatures. I'm talking about western NY, where I lived from '83-'05.

 

OT: Hello from Sweden. I've only seen one Subaru, a gen III outback, been here a week.

[cookie]

Looks like we really have you and nipper covering ground. I just remember Ithica from when I was a little kid vising my uncle who taught at Cornell. Sure seemed cold to me!

[msmithmmx]

Not sure why all the postive news about the 2.5. Its not if the HG will blow its when is it going to happen (on the way to the camping trip, work, family, frinds) When mine went and I put a 2.2 in since EVERYONE knows its like putting a nuclear reactor in your car

 

I am very surprised my one comment caused so much drama. Subaru owners are very passionate people.