Denver mad scientists - transmission lab: Lab ingredients/forumula FOUND!

[idosubaru]

I no longer own any RX's or RX parts

puke, that sucks for us! you did great stuff with the EA82's, it was a fun ride for us spectators!

[WJM]

I might be back.

 

If so, it'll be a few years.

[carfreak85]

So without re-reading all eight pages, what was the consensus on this?

[WJM]

I only see 4 pages...and I dont think there is one yet.

[BeefaRu]

So without re-reading all eight pages, what was the consensus on this?

Consensus is several local guys want the hybrid tranny. Shawn started working on it, and everyone else got tied up with crap. But Shawn still wants to build it....just got tired of struggling alone. I'm behind the idea and committed to it, but have to finish a book I've been writing.

When I'm done I'll be able to help Shawn 100%, and will hopefully be able to rope a few others into it. The mechanic I use could consult with us when we do get after it. So it's on the back burner for now, but no one will be content with it staying there for another year.

[Numbchux]

Consensus is several local guys want the hybrid tranny. Shawn started working on it, and everyone else got tied up with crap. But Shawn still wants to build it....just got tired of struggling alone. I'm behind the idea and committed to it, but have to finish a book I've been writing.

When I'm done I'll be able to help Shawn 100%, and will hopefully be able to rope a few others into it. The mechanic I use could consult with us when we do get after it. So it's on the back burner for now, but no one will be content with it staying there for another year.

 

I want to do it too.....but can't afford to buy a pile of donor transmissions. :-\

 

 

 

I also want to get my hands on an EJ D/R case to drop the whole thing into. and a front LSD....and........and..............

 

ugh

[Caboobaroo]

Well I'm going to bump this up right now. I currently have a '98 Impreza "L" AWD 5-speed, 3.9 tranny open and I'm going to open up my RX dual range since no one wants to buy it. I'm going to see about doing some swapping inside there and see if I can get my dual range to fit:banana:

[subiemech85]

not that noone wants to buy it, but the shipping would probably be too expensive to send my way

 

 

and now I'm considering the posibility of converting 3.9 d/r to 3.7 d/r with front lsd

[the_postie]

I'm gonna be paying attention... I'll soon have a 3.9 ej D/R, and I'm gonna want to know how to open it and add ea82 D/R gears and then open an ej 4.111 trans to adapt that. . .

 

I too am doing this same conversion. the parts collection

1/ ej 3.9 dual range,for the cases and gearset

2/ 4.111 jap turbo box ,for front diff and pinion shaft

3/ ea82 dual range box, for the low range gear.

Funny thing is i've picked up parts 1&2 easily and cheaply but 3 there seems to be a lack of unless you spend the bucks.It seems most ppl throw em away when they go bang even though the low range gears are intack.

As soon as i get the ea box its all happening.A mate who's done a few of these is helping out and i'll be taking pics along the way.

[ThreeEyedBandit]

Did anybody actually get a FT4WD locking diff working on a EJ AWD box? I have both of them apart and the pinion shafts are greatly different in length. I rember reading about a extension shaft(?) for the pinion, but mine is all one piece. I have already swapped the stubs over to 23 splines, but would like the locking differential.

 

If anybody would like pictures of the inside of either transmission I have both of them all apart, and would be happy to take some.

 

Matt

[impoutback 97]

So yer dun? Update please:grin:

[doobieryan]

I have an ea 4 speed that low range still works great on That someone can have. I cut off the input shaft for a pilot shaft lol but if you just want it for low range it'll work. But i don't know if the ratio is the same. Just pay shipping and its yours. Otherwise its gettin scrapped

thanks,

Ryan

[crazyman03]

i'm pretty sure they are done seeing as the thread started in 2006. and the very recent post is still 2009 and before that 2008 so.. yea.. this is an old thread.

 

 

-Justin

[ShawnW]

I never finished them. Differences in the shaft as indicated above made me wonder if I would be required to use the EJ viscous which would mean not having diff lock. Frankly the project isn't worth it if:

 

4.11 or 4.44 gears dont work with a locking center diff.

 

The other problem is most of us with the ambition to do a transmission up this way would also either already have or have plans to do an EJ swap.

 

Personally I don't want the old EA trans, its flywheel, clutch, etc if I can have an EJ trans with any sort of low range and 4.11 or 4.44 gears and a non locking center diff I would rather have that and no bellhousing adapter. For what 3 donor trannys (or more) costs you are getting a great deal closer to the price of having one from overseas. Just a matter of finding someone reliable to ship them over. I am working on this.

 

I think the best EA trans you could make without much for real parts swapping is a 3.90 FT4wd RX trans. It could be done with the low from the 3.9 and the ring and pinion from same. Combined with addtitional power from a 2.2 or 2.5 (or 3.3 or 3.0) engine I don't see a need to go much further than that.

[Gloyale]

 

I think the best EA trans you could make without much for real parts swapping is a 3.90 FT4wd RX trans. It could be done with the low from the 3.9 and the ring and pinion from same. Combined with addtitional power from a 2.2 or 2.5 (or 3.3 or 3.0) engine I don't see a need to go much further than that.

 

I've been looking and looking.

 

I don't even think the 3.9 FT4wd would work. Swapping in the low range would be easy. But to convert to 3.9 from 3.7 you have to swap pinion shafts.

 

well, 3rd and 4th gears are cast into the shaft.....and I don't believe will match between the FT4wd and standard tranny's because of the gearing differences.

 

Possibly if you could swap the 3rd and 4th gear set on the upper shaft, and the 1 adn 2 gearsets on the lower shaft........but still the lower shaft is totally different on the FT (bigger diameter, shaft in shaft) so I don't think it will work.

 

 

 

 

One new possibility to doing at least an AWD 4.11 has come up. I actually made one of these before. It worked, but the meshing of 1 and 2 gears was a bit off. I used an 86 GL D/R for the case and upper shaft. It chewed up gears after 500 miles.

 

Now recently, I opened up an 89 D/R. ("lo" switch on the right side of trans instead of in car)

 

It seemed to have a gear cut that more closely matched the cut of the EJ gears.

 

I want to build another 4.11 D/R using one of these last year of production D/R upper shafts. Anybody want to donate an 89 D/R? :

[doobieryan]

I think everything from 87-89 were the same, so that gives you a little more options. But Im not totally positive.

Ryan

[Gloyale]

I think everything from 87-89 were the same, so that gives you a little more options. But Im not totally positive.

Ryan

 

No there are definately some differences in the years of the D/R.

 

Specifiaclly, the 89 model, it;'s the on;y year with a Nuetral switch, and the Low range switch on the trans. Also, it's the on;y one I've opened with the wierd synchro on first gear driven gear. (not really a synchro but I don't know what to call it)

 

It is this extra plate that is really part of the first gearset that these late D/Rs share with the early Legacy trans.

[doobieryan]

Ahh. Well i guess you learn something new every day. Lol. Is this an upgrade from previous years, or does it really even make a difference? The reason i ask is cause Im getting ready to put A 5 speed in my 82 and if there's one that's better than the others id like to get That one.

[BeefaRu]

IT'S ALIIIVE!! I'm glad to see this thread has come back from the dead. I'm also back from the dead for a couple reasons:

 

Reason one: as promised I would tackle this after I wrote my book. Long story short, I did that and hope to have a publisher-ready version next year.

 

Reason two: after personally driving my custom transmission 230,000 miles, it finally had a hiccup. But instead of just fixing the bad part and throwing the tranny back in, I'm paying to have it completely torn apart and gone through before it goes back in. Yesterday I photographed it disassembled.

 

Today I took the photos to the original mad scientist who built it, and he spent a lot of time explaining the whole thing.

That was fun.

 

Now I have a list of all the parts, how they were put together, and what was modified.

I can now create a guide on how to duplicate my transmission. It's also possible to go 4.44 using the same guide.

 

My problem is I'll be broke after this. That, and I have little time to write a guide. Truthfully, it would be nice to receive some sort of donation for the guide, to help me get my head above water and to justify dropping things that make me money in order to create the guide.

 

Before anyone considers donating money to a guide, let me save you a few bucks.

• Dropping a dual range tranny to 4:11 or 4:44 makes it impossible to have a locking center diff. You have to commit to the legacy full-time 4WD center diff.
  
• The good news is finally, instead of choosing one or the other -- big-tire ground clearance or dual-range gearing -- you can have both.
  

 

Anyway, if there's interest in donating towards a guide, I'll take the time to put it together. It'll list all parts, explain why those parts work best, how they go together, which one needs to be modified, and why the center diff doesn't work.

 

Actually it's simpler than I thought. If you don't go with the tall 5th gear, no gears have to be pressed on/off splines. It only works with certain parts, but they're all stock subaru, don't cost a fortune, and only one has to be modified.

Edited August 26, 2010 by BeefaRu

[skishop69]

For the ability to drop the gearing like that, I'll take the FT diff. I'll also put up $100 if you can get 10 or so guys to jump on board with whatever they can afford. This would add tremendously to the idea for my ER27 conversion on the Brat when it's lifted!

[BeefaRu]

for the ability to drop the gearing like that, i'll take the ft diff. I'll also put up $100 if you can get 10 or so guys to jump on board with whatever they can afford. This would add tremendously to the idea for my er27 conversion on the brat when it's lifted!

wow!

[skishop69]

You've got invaluable knowledge there and you've put in the work. I believe that's worth something. From what I've read thus far, almost all of the items are fairly common. With some patience and time spent at a PAP, you could disassemble there just for the parts you need and do it dirt cheap.

[ShawnW]

I've been looking and looking.

 

I don't even think the 3.9 FT4wd would work. Swapping in the low range would be easy. But to convert to 3.9 from 3.7 you have to swap pinion shafts.

 

well, 3rd and 4th gears are cast into the shaft.....and I don't believe will match between the FT4wd and standard tranny's because of the gearing differences.

 

Possibly if you could swap the 3rd and 4th gear set on the upper shaft, and the 1 adn 2 gearsets on the lower shaft........but still the lower shaft is totally different on the FT (bigger diameter, shaft in shaft) so I don't think it will work.

 

 

 

 

One new possibility to doing at least an AWD 4.11 has come up. I actually made one of these before. It worked, but the meshing of 1 and 2 gears was a bit off. I used an 86 GL D/R for the case and upper shaft. It chewed up gears after 500 miles.

 

Now recently, I opened up an 89 D/R. ("lo" switch on the right side of trans instead of in car)

 

It seemed to have a gear cut that more closely matched the cut of the EJ gears.

 

I want to build another 4.11 D/R using one of these last year of production D/R upper shafts. Anybody want to donate an 89 D/R? :

 

I believe a hybrid of the RX and XT6 3.90 trans would be the solution. I have most of both in my Mad Science bin here.

[BeefaRu]

So far we've got one big donor (dependent on others to jump on board) and ShawnW

 

Bump for anyone interested in plans on how to duplicate my transmission:

 

• 3:9 full time 4WD 5 speed transmission
  
• stock 1.1:1 hi/low replaced with better ratio hi/lo
  
• 3:9 RX ratio dropped to legacy 4:11
  
• Legacy viscous coupling center diff
  
• 5th gear replaced with taller 5th gear
  

 

Dropping 3:9 to 4:11 and changing out the hi/lo brings jeep-trail capability to the low range, and the tall 5th gear means cruising at 70+ MPH at 3k rpm for extended inter-state road trips.

 

This transmission combined with legacy 2.2 power is the most versatile and economical drivetrain I've ever owned (or may ever own). Colorado 4WD trails, 230,000 miles, 23 states of highway driving, and the gears/syncros still look great...amazing.

[987687]

Why must the viscus center be used with the 4.11 gearing? I've found that the viscus diff in my legacy is completely pathetic and wouldn't want it offroad.